Christian and Jewish influences in Tolkien's work?

[inked]

Well, Phillip Pullman thinks there are Christian influences in Tolkien's work! See here: http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=15002

Of course, PP thinks that's a reason to discredit Tollers! But I'd bet PP would protest anyone discounting his work because it was written by an atheist who thought his world view explained everything as PP discounts Tolkien's Roman Catholicism.

And Tolkien's account of the Creation is certainly Hebraically influenced and blended with Norse and other mythologies in addition to its Christian content - to start at the beginning, as it were.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by inked

Well, Phillip Pullman thinks there are Christian influences in Tolkien's work! See here: http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=15002

Of course, PP thinks that's a reason to discredit Tollers! But I'd bet PP would protest anyone discounting his work because it was written by an atheist who thought his world view explained everything as PP discounts Tolkien's Roman Catholicism.

And Tolkien's account of the Creation is certainly Hebraically influenced and blended with Norse and other mythologies in addition to its Christian content - to start at the beginning, as it were.

I will reply in the "Lwis vs Tolkien vs Pullman: Death Match in the Cage!" thread.

[The Telcontarion]

Read 1st and 2nd kings in the bible. there you will see that the relationship between Gondor and Arnor was firmly based on the events of those books.

While Gondor only came to the defense of Arnor once - during the which kings invasion - in the bible the, the South Kingdom/the kingdom of Judah, came to the aid of the North Kingdom/the kingdom of Israel reeatedly, with the Judite king always stating that "My horses, my people, my swords and the thy people are as one."

Tolkien clearly did not make his version of the story with such a close relationship of them always going to war together (as tolkienites, that was always a dream that they could have a closer more unified relationship), after all it would have been to obvious a rippoff; he had to change it but it's clear. The single most important inspiration of Tolkien's work is the bible and subsequently, the story of the jews.

PS. I noticed no one addressed my previous post about the numbers 12 and the 144. Come on, it's not hard, don't run....hahahaaa!!!

[inked]

El Tel, JRRT did not simply re-write the Bible.

12 tribes/gates
12 apostles/foundation stones of New Jerusalem
144 (12x12) includes the Jews and the Gentiles
1000 incomprehensibly huge number

144,000 in the Apocalypse (aka Revelation) = the symbolic number of the incomprehensibly huge number of those whom God is saving (perhaps equal to everyone in all times and places?)

Not to mention gematria - which ought to give you a field day!

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by inked

144,000 in the Apocalypse (aka Revelation) = the symbolic number of the incomprehensibly huge number of those whom God is saving (perhaps equal to everyone in all times and places?)

Not to mention gematria - which ought to give you a field day!

Give me a field day?

Revelation 7:4-6

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

So 144,000 is not talking about everyone that ever was, just 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Now as for Tolkien rewriting the bible, it sure does seem that he did in a great many different places; 1st and second kings, to be specific in but one instances.

And the point is that 144,000 is a straight rip from the bible and that, it and other things are closely based on the life and prophecies pertaining to the Israelites.