From jester to scholar

Kirinki54 · 11-05-2001, 06:10 AM

In your view, is there anything in The Hobbit that points to Bilbo Bagger later in life becoming a great scholar on Elven lore and languages?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-06-2001, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirinki54
In your view, is there anything in The Hobbit that points to Bilbo Bagger later in life becoming a great scholar on Elven lore and languages?

I don't think so, but he may have after living in Rivendell. He probably did learn a lot. I think he was just into poetry IIRC. I think I remember a part where he had Aragorn helping him out with his writings. I don't know about languages though.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-06-2001, 12:09 PM

Something happened when I posted the first time. It appeared twice. I don't know what it was.

Comic Book Guy · 11-06-2001, 02:31 PM

Aragorn helped Bilbo write a poem in Rivendell which was later sung by Bilbo in a party in Rivendell, he would have also helped Bilbo in the writings about the Rangers and the regions of Middle-Earth.

Kirinki54 · 11-06-2001, 05:12 PM

What made me post the question was, if you didn´t know they where the same person, IMHO nobody would have guessed it.

The way Bilbo is pictured in The Hobbit bears some very small resemblance to the person appearing in A Long Expected Party in LotR. But it is hard to see him evolve into the scholar.

Which he actually did become! He 'founded' the Red Book of Westmarch.
See 'Note on the Shire records' in Prologue in LotR. Veeery fascinating...

Ñólendil · 11-11-2001, 02:30 AM

In the Hobbit Bilbo did have a reverence for things greater and more beautiful than himself, but it was hidden deep down -- and it only comes out during his adventure (and appears to be expanded). You have to go to Unfinished Tales to discover that Bilbo was actually visiting the Elves in his land and keeping up with their calendar before his adventures with Thorin & Company, but by the time Gandalf came to his door he had bottled it up inside. At any rate sixty years divide the Bilbo of The Hobbit from the Bilbo of the beginning of the LR narrative. That alone will provide some excuse for different character, even when his ennoblement and possession of a magic Ring is not considered.

Kirinki54 · 11-12-2001, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inoldonil
That alone will provide some excuse for different character, even when his ennoblement and possession of a magic Ring is not considered.

Agreed with your post, most of which not quoted here.

About the Ring: can anyone imagine that it even had a positive influence of sorts on Bilbo?
(At least I have always wondered that Bilbo seemed to be so resistant to any bad influences.)

Matto Baggins · 12-17-2001, 10:52 PM

i think bilbo was just so pure of heart and naive about the power of the ring that it couldnt penetrate to the evil part of him
HOBBITS LIVE FREE!

Ñólendil · 12-17-2001, 11:06 PM

In my opintion any apparent resistance to bad influences ought to be attributed to Bilbo's Hobbit-nature rather than the One Ring, which had some pretty bad influences of its own.

Kirinki54 · 12-18-2001, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inoldonil
In my opintion any apparent resistance to bad influences ought to be attributed to Bilbo's Hobbit-nature rather than the One Ring, which had some pretty bad influences of its own.

Well I agree that it IS unlikely the Ring had any positive aspects or influences at all. Which again highlights the character of Bilbo. He must have been the most saintly Hobbit around! And perhaps that "monk-like" attitude helped him into scholarship...

Jo El · 12-18-2001, 07:28 PM

The best indicator of the influence that the One Ring had on Bilbo is the fact that from the time he found it he lied about how he had obtained it.

As for his morals, note in the Fellowship Frodo tell us that Bilbo gave away the treasure taken from the Trolls because it was stolen from others by the Trolls.

How many of us would give away money that we obtained by eliminating a criminal because it was from illegal activities?

Ñólendil · 12-19-2001, 01:54 AM

Well, not very many indeed. It was a very good thing for Bilbo to do, I agree with you, but let's remember he was already rich and after the Quest of Erebor he had become richer via his share of the Dragon-gold (which was much and relatively not much). Bilbo was very generous with his money, but I just want to get across the point that it wasn't the case of a poor or middle-class man giving away everything he had.

Kirinki54 · 12-19-2001, 05:36 PM

Does anyone know if Bilbo started his research in Elven lore and languages before leaving the Shire and ending up in Imladris?
I think he used to meet with travelling Elves?

Matto Baggins · 12-19-2001, 06:07 PM

i think he probably knew a little about elves before leaving the shire.

11-05-2001, 06:10 AM	#1
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	From jester to scholar In your view, is there anything in The Hobbit that points to Bilbo Bagger later in life becoming a great scholar on Elven lore and languages?

11-06-2001, 12:09 PM	#3
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Re: Re: From jester to scholar Something happened when I posted the first time. It appeared twice. I don't know what it was. Last edited by Sister Golden Hair : 11-06-2001 at 12:16 PM.

11-11-2001, 02:30 AM	#6
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	In the Hobbit Bilbo did have a reverence for things greater and more beautiful than himself, but it was hidden deep down -- and it only comes out during his adventure (and appears to be expanded). You have to go to Unfinished Tales to discover that Bilbo was actually visiting the Elves in his land and keeping up with their calendar before his adventures with Thorin & Company, but by the time Gandalf came to his door he had bottled it up inside. At any rate sixty years divide the Bilbo of The Hobbit from the Bilbo of the beginning of the LR narrative. That alone will provide some excuse for different character, even when his ennoblement and possession of a magic Ring is not considered. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-17-2001, 10:52 PM	#8
Matto Baggins Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 23	bilbo scholor i think bilbo was just so pure of heart and naive about the power of the ring that it couldnt penetrate to the evil part of him HOBBITS LIVE FREE! __________________ The Road May Be Long And Hard, But I Will Follow The Course To It's End. HOBBITS LIVE FREE!

12-17-2001, 11:06 PM	#9
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	In my opintion any apparent resistance to bad influences ought to be attributed to Bilbo's Hobbit-nature rather than the One Ring, which had some pretty bad influences of its own. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-06-2001, 02:31 PM	#4
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	Aragorn helped Bilbo write a poem in Rivendell which was later sung by Bilbo in a party in Rivendell, he would have also helped Bilbo in the writings about the Rangers and the regions of Middle-Earth.

11-06-2001, 05:12 PM	#5
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	What made me post the question was, if you didn´t know they where the same person, IMHO nobody would have guessed it. The way Bilbo is pictured in The Hobbit bears some very small resemblance to the person appearing in A Long Expected Party in LotR. But it is hard to see him evolve into the scholar. Which he actually did become! He 'founded' the Red Book of Westmarch. See 'Note on the Shire records' in Prologue in LotR. Veeery fascinating...

12-18-2001, 07:28 PM	#11
Jo El Sapling Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Carlisle, PA Posts: 13	The best indicator of the influence that the One Ring had on Bilbo is the fact that from the time he found it he lied about how he had obtained it. As for his morals, note in the Fellowship Frodo tell us that Bilbo gave away the treasure taken from the Trolls because it was stolen from others by the Trolls. How many of us would give away money that we obtained by eliminating a criminal because it was from illegal activities? __________________ Jo El

12-19-2001, 01:54 AM	#12
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Well, not very many indeed. It was a very good thing for Bilbo to do, I agree with you, but let's remember he was already rich and after the Quest of Erebor he had become richer via his share of the Dragon-gold (which was much and relatively not much). Bilbo was very generous with his money, but I just want to get across the point that it wasn't the case of a poor or middle-class man giving away everything he had. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-19-2001, 05:36 PM	#13
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	Does anyone know if Bilbo started his research in Elven lore and languages before leaving the Shire and ending up in Imladris? I think he used to meet with travelling Elves? __________________ 'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.'

12-19-2001, 06:07 PM	#14
Matto Baggins Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 23	i think he probably knew a little about elves before leaving the shire. __________________ The Road May Be Long And Hard, But I Will Follow The Course To It's End. HOBBITS LIVE FREE!