Did anyone (besides me) notice...

Rosie Gamgee · 10-09-2003, 03:18 PM

Okay, I don't know if this has been brought up before, if so, my sincere apologies. But, has any else noticed the similarities between Return of the Jedi and Episode One?

1. Jar Jar Binks and... Wicket, I think was his name (the little Ewok). They both are introduced in the woods, they both take the person they met up with to their city. They both swing sling-shot type weapons over thier shoulders and goof up while trying to let it go. There's more to this, but I haven't watched these movies in a while, so...
2. The end of the pod-race and the speeder chase is the same- Luke/Anakin get their machines stuck on Sebulba/Unidentified Storm Trooper's, then pull away at the last minute.
3. During what I take to be the '3rd act' of the films, there is in both, (A) a lightsaber duel between a good guy and a bad guy, (B) a battle involving seemingly unbeatable odds going on down-planet, and (C) a space-battle above the planet.
4. When Anakin destroys the space station (or whatever it was) he flies out with the flames roaring up to the back of his fighter, and pops out of danger with this whoop- all of those things being strangely familiar (although I definately like Lando doing it better).
5. Both Palpatine and Darth Maul fall down a huge tunnel when meeting their doom (what is with that anyways? Why can't we just kill them instead of tossing them down a hole?)

There's a few more, but I can't think of them right now. Whatchall think?

***IronParrot*** · 10-09-2003, 04:44 PM

You noted some pretty good similarities of events between TPM and ROTJ. Some of these I hadn't noticed so overtly, and others are pretty clear attempts by George Lucas to "unify" the saga between two distinct bookends.

But there's one major point that needs to be recognized: these similarities, while variations on the same action-film techniques, are also separated by the fact that they are in completely different contexts that - most importantly - result in completely different consequences. You have a parallel chain of events, but one sets up the Empire, wihle the other one tears it down. That, to me, is intriguing.

On the point of falling into pits, there actually is a very sound motivic basis for this throughout the entire Star Wars saga. I don't have the essays on the subject handy (and I'm not sure they exist anymore, since most of them I read in messageboard posts from several years ago) but there is definitely some intentional symbolism going on there.

jellyfishannah · 10-10-2003, 10:10 AM

Did anyone (besides me) notice that episode I didn't do the classic Star Wars trilogy any justice?

Rosie Gamgee · 10-16-2003, 02:44 PM

um...... YES!

***IronParrot*** · 10-16-2003, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Did anyone (besides me) notice that episode I didn't do the classic Star Wars trilogy any justice?

Debatable. Parts of it, yes, you have a valid argument. The movie as a whole... I tended to see that the Prequels went in a very different direction than the Classic Trilogy, but not by any means a bad one.

jellyfishannah · 10-16-2003, 07:48 PM

Is there a venting thread for how bad those movies were? Why why WHY did they make Jar Jar Binks a senator??! Ok. I am going to look for that venting thread. (I'm not too familiar with everything yet)

Anglorfin · 10-16-2003, 10:17 PM

I've never actually thought about that before, but I could see the symbolism behind it as IP mentioned. Though it wouldn't seem beneath Lucas at this point to re-use plot elements like this. But that's not a fair assumption and in any case it does make an interesting story progression, or at least give me something to think about.

Fimbrethil · 10-18-2003, 08:50 PM

Well it's something interesting to think about at least. But what is the symbolisym for falling into pits? The way the old republic falls and the way the empire falls? Or is it something else?

hectorberlioz · 10-24-2003, 09:48 PM

One thing that made originals special was that they had symbolism. the new ones only give you action and a bunch of teenage brats who dont think with their heads.

Fimbrethil · 10-29-2003, 09:42 PM

Well I suppose if you looked close enough you could find some. But think about...cute teenage guys who don't think with their head versuses lots of really good symbloism...think how many empty headed tennage girls they would lose from the series. Not to say that I am an empty headed teenage girl! No do not let the speeking errors foul you I have stuff in my head!

10-09-2003, 03:18 PM	#1
Rosie Gamgee The Lovely Hobbit-Lass Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bounded in a nut-shell Posts: 1,593	Did anyone (besides me) notice... Okay, I don't know if this has been brought up before, if so, my sincere apologies. But, has any else noticed the similarities between Return of the Jedi and Episode One? 1. Jar Jar Binks and... Wicket, I think was his name (the little Ewok). They both are introduced in the woods, they both take the person they met up with to their city. They both swing sling-shot type weapons over thier shoulders and goof up while trying to let it go. There's more to this, but I haven't watched these movies in a while, so... 2. The end of the pod-race and the speeder chase is the same- Luke/Anakin get their machines stuck on Sebulba/Unidentified Storm Trooper's, then pull away at the last minute. 3. During what I take to be the '3rd act' of the films, there is in both, (A) a lightsaber duel between a good guy and a bad guy, (B) a battle involving seemingly unbeatable odds going on down-planet, and (C) a space-battle above the planet. 4. When Anakin destroys the space station (or whatever it was) he flies out with the flames roaring up to the back of his fighter, and pops out of danger with this whoop- all of those things being strangely familiar (although I definately like Lando doing it better). 5. Both Palpatine and Darth Maul fall down a huge tunnel when meeting their doom (what is with that anyways? Why can't we just kill them instead of tossing them down a hole?) There's a few more, but I can't think of them right now. Whatchall think? __________________ It's New Years Day, just like the day before; Same old skies of grey, same empty bottles on the floor. Another year's gone by, and I was thinking once again, How can I take this losing hand and somehow win? Just give me One Good Year To get my feet back on the ground. I've been chasing grace; Grace ain't so easily found One bad hand can devil a man, chase him and carry him down. I've got to get out of here, just give me One Good Year!

10-09-2003, 04:44 PM	#2
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	You noted some pretty good similarities of events between TPM and ROTJ. Some of these I hadn't noticed so overtly, and others are pretty clear attempts by George Lucas to "unify" the saga between two distinct bookends. But there's one major point that needs to be recognized: these similarities, while variations on the same action-film techniques, are also separated by the fact that they are in completely different contexts that - most importantly - result in completely different consequences. You have a parallel chain of events, but one sets up the Empire, wihle the other one tears it down. That, to me, is intriguing. On the point of falling into pits, there actually is a very sound motivic basis for this throughout the entire Star Wars saga. I don't have the essays on the subject handy (and I'm not sure they exist anymore, since most of them I read in messageboard posts from several years ago) but there is definitely some intentional symbolism going on there. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

10-10-2003, 10:10 AM	#3
jellyfishannah Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Library, may it live forever!!! Posts: 269	Did anyone (besides me) notice that episode I didn't do the classic Star Wars trilogy any justice? __________________ "Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much." ~Oscar Wilde "Don't tell lies you can't keep." ~My little sister...

10-16-2003, 02:44 PM	#4
Rosie Gamgee The Lovely Hobbit-Lass Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bounded in a nut-shell Posts: 1,593	um...... YES! __________________ It's New Years Day, just like the day before; Same old skies of grey, same empty bottles on the floor. Another year's gone by, and I was thinking once again, How can I take this losing hand and somehow win? Just give me One Good Year To get my feet back on the ground. I've been chasing grace; Grace ain't so easily found One bad hand can devil a man, chase him and carry him down. I've got to get out of here, just give me One Good Year!

10-16-2003, 07:48 PM	#6
jellyfishannah Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Library, may it live forever!!! Posts: 269	Is there a venting thread for how bad those movies were? Why why WHY did they make Jar Jar Binks a senator??! Ok. I am going to look for that venting thread. (I'm not too familiar with everything yet) __________________ "Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much." ~Oscar Wilde "Don't tell lies you can't keep." ~My little sister...

10-16-2003, 10:17 PM	#7
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	I've never actually thought about that before, but I could see the symbolism behind it as IP mentioned. Though it wouldn't seem beneath Lucas at this point to re-use plot elements like this. But that's not a fair assumption and in any case it does make an interesting story progression, or at least give me something to think about. __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

10-18-2003, 08:50 PM	#8
Fimbrethil My microwave speaks to me Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Having conversations with my major household appliances. Posts: 937	Well it's something interesting to think about at least. But what is the symbolisym for falling into pits? The way the old republic falls and the way the empire falls? Or is it something else? __________________ Bah, Bah black sheep have oyu any wool? Yes sir, yes sir. Three bags full! One for the master, one for the dame, one for the little boy who lives down the lane! Bah, bah black sheep have you any wool? Yes sir, yes sir. Three bags full. I'll be gone for a while. But never fear! "I shall return anon!"

10-24-2003, 09:48 PM	#9
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	One thing that made originals special was that they had symbolism. the new ones only give you action and a bunch of teenage brats who dont think with their heads. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

10-29-2003, 09:42 PM	#10
Fimbrethil My microwave speaks to me Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Having conversations with my major household appliances. Posts: 937	Well I suppose if you looked close enough you could find some. But think about...cute teenage guys who don't think with their head versuses lots of really good symbloism...think how many empty headed tennage girls they would lose from the series. Not to say that I am an empty headed teenage girl! No do not let the speeking errors foul you I have stuff in my head! __________________ Bah, Bah black sheep have oyu any wool? Yes sir, yes sir. Three bags full! One for the master, one for the dame, one for the little boy who lives down the lane! Bah, bah black sheep have you any wool? Yes sir, yes sir. Three bags full. I'll be gone for a while. But never fear! "I shall return anon!"

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