Finrod and Amarie

[Sister Golden Hair]

In the Silmarillion it says:

Now King Finrod Felagund had no wife, and Galadriel asked him why this should be; but forsight came upon felagund as she spoke; and he said: "An oath I too shall swear, and must be free to fulfil it, and go into darkness. Nor shall anything of my realm endure that a son should inherit."

In "Laws and Customs of the Eldar" it says that Elves usually picked their mates in childhood. And this person was who they remained with throughout all time until the end of Arda. We don't specifically know if Finrod and Amarie were married at the time he went into Exile, but we do know that she was who he loved, and apparently that happens only once in life for an Elf, nomatter what.

My question is: why would Galadriel ask him this knowing he was betrothed to Amarie even if they were seperated, knowing that he could, and would not choose another?

[celeb-galad]

How do you know they were married? I doubt Amarië would have stayed behind if they were. I even doubt their love reached full bloom, or that it was made manifest to everyone in Aman. I think Finrod kept his love for her in his heart, and this was hidden from Galadriel.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by celeb-galad
How do you know they were married? I doubt Amarië would have stayed behind if they were. I even doubt their love reached full bloom, or that it was made manifest to everyone in Aman. I think Finrod kept his love for her in his heart, and this was hidden from Galadriel.

I didn't say that they were married.

We don't specifically know if Finrod and Amarie were married at the time he went into Exile

According to "Laws and Customs" they didn't have to be. They were committed. Galadriel would have known that.

[Ulmo]

but we do know that she was who he loved, and apparently that happens only once in life for an Elf, nomatter what.

I remind you...Finwe and Miriel/Indis.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Galadriel would have known that.

Apparently Galadriel did not know, or else she wouldn't have asked. Is it said anywhere that Amarie loved Finrod? Perhaps he kept his love to himself, because he knew it wouldn't be returned.

I assume Galadriel had just met Celeborn, and love was strongly on her mind at that time. She may have wanted to talk with Finrod about his experience of love and marriage.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ulmo
I remind you...Finwe and Miriel/Indis.

Remember that that was an unusual case and the only one of its kind. Miriel had died and refused to return to life. That is much different than Finrod and Amarie.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Apparently Galadriel did not know, or else she wouldn't have asked.

Since the Elves proclaim their love in childhood, how could Galadriel not know?

Is it said anywhere that Amarie loved Finrod? Perhaps he kept his love to himself, because he knew it wouldn't be returned.

Well, it says somewhere that they did get together after he was released from Mandos. It is in one of the HoMe books. Can't remember which one.

I guess though that if she never loved him, then that shoots Michael Martinez' theory in the foot that Gildor Inglorian was probably Finrod and Amarie's son.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Since Gildor was not a King or other great lord, that preety much shoots him being Finrods son, whenever he came to middle earth. By the succesion in male line, which is the form followed by the Noldorin Kings (where thoses in senor female lines were apparently passed over for junior male lines) He would have been the chief heir of Finwe in ME. He may, however, have been a grandson or youner generation descendant of Finrod or AraFinwe, through female descent, thus getting getting to named part of the family with being the heir to kingship, or perhaps even a fosterson of Finrod (There were many young elves orphaned during the war of the jewels), getting a family connection in that manner.

[Maedhros]

My question is: why would Galadriel ask him this knowing he was betrothed to Amarië

I don't think that there is any question that they were in love. I think I read somewhere, possibly in the Shibboleth, that Amarië was not permitted to go into exile with him.
To me, Amarië would be the right queen of Nargothrond.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Maedhros
I don't think that there is any question that they were in love. I think I read somewhere, possibly in the Shibboleth, that Amarië was not permitted to go into exile with him.
To me, Amarië would be the right queen of Nargothrond.

Very funny Maedhros, but yes, you are correct about it saying that Amarie was not permitted to go with him. So, that tells me that his love was returned by her and I can't think their love was a secret as suggested, so it is still a puzzle to me as to why Galadriel asked him that question.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Since the Elves proclaim their love in childhood, how could Galadriel not know?

Agree there's a problem there. But Finrod's answer to Galadriel is also strange:

An oath I too shall swear, and must be free to fulfil it, and go into darkness. Nor shall anything of my realm endure that a son should inherit.

From his answer it seems like it is the uncertainty of his future that keeps him from marrying, not that his loved one is not with him.

Originally posted by Maedhros
To me, Amarië would be the right queen of Nargothrond.

Sticking your neck out, do you? SGH, I thought you would have hewed his head off

[Maedhros]

So, that tells me that his love was returned by her and I can't think their love was a secret as suggested, so it is still a puzzle to me as to why Galadriel asked him that question.

I don't see the problem in that. What if that was only the beginning of their love. Galadriel would be busy with Celeborn in Aman and would have not noticed that? The only ones who would new would be Finrod, Amarië and the parents of Amarië.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Artanis
Agree there's a problem there. But Finrod's answer to Galadriel is also strange: From his answer it seems like it is the uncertainty of his future that keeps him from marrying, not that his loved one is not with him.

I would agree with your interpretation but for what Tolkien says immediately after that.

But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled him; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarie of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile.

Sticking your neck out, do you? SGH, I thought you would have hewed his head off

I'm thinking about it Artanis. Maybe his other hand huh?

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I would agree with your interpretation but for what Tolkien says immediately after that.

I know. These two quotes seem to contradict each other. It's strange.

I'm thinking about it Artanis. Maybe his other hand huh?

It would be nicer than the head, agree.

Maedhros, before your limbs fall, you believe Celeborn was a Teleri living in Aman, do you? Wasn't that something JRRT wrote very late in life?

[Maedhros]

Maedhros, before your limbs fall, you believe Celeborn was a Teleri living in Aman, do you? Wasn't that something JRRT wrote very late in life?

That is precisely why I think that.

I'm thinking about it Artanis. Maybe his other hand huh?

How would i be able to type then?

[Sister Golden Hair]

How would i be able to type then?

And it was said that he learned to type better and faster with his nose then he had with both hands

That is precisely why I think that.

You know, rumor has it that Tolkien was not quite right in mind late in life.

[Maedhros]

And it was said that he learned to type better and faster with his nose then he had with both hands

HEHEHEHE

You know, rumor has it that Tolkien was not quite right in mind late in life.

From the Book of Unfinished Tales:The History of Galadriel and Celeborn

This story, withdrawing Galadriel from all association with the rebellion of Fëanor, even to the extent of giving her a separate departure (with Celeborn) from Aman, is profoundly at variance with all that is said elsewhere. It arose from "philosophical" (rather than "historical") considerations, concerning the precise nature of Galadriel's disobedience in Valinor on the one hand, and her status and power in Middle-earth on the other. That it would have entailed a good deal of alteration in the narrative of The Silmarillion is evident; but that my father doubtless intended to do. It may be noted here that Galadriel did not appear in the original story of the rebellion and flight of the Noldor, which existed tong before she did; and also, of course, that after her entry into the stories of the First Age her actions could still be transformed radically, since The Silmarillion had not been published. The book as published was however formed from completed narratives, and I could not take into account merely projected revisions.

This is why I believe that.

[celeb-galad]

But if Celeborn is a prince of Alqualondë, and Olwë's grandson, Galadriel and Celeborn would have been too closely related. Smells like incest...And the Eldar did not wed such close kin.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by celeb-galad
But if Celeborn is a prince of Alqualondë, and Olwë's grandson, Galadriel and Celeborn would have been too closely related. Smells like incest...And the Eldar did not wed such close kin.

At the time he was experimenting with this (apparently abandoned in favor of remaining consistant with PUBLISHED text{Celeborn was established as a Sinda in the apendicies to LoTr}) He also was experimenting with distinguishing first cousins related through one (each) parent from those related through both (each) parents. One of his brainstorming notes creates a realtion called by the elves 'half sibling' wich is not our use of the word both are first cousing whose both parents a siblings. Eg, a pair of siblings marries another pair of siblings are their the cildren from the two couples call each other 'half siblings', and that 'half siblings' do not marry, but other first cousins do.

[Utumno]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I guess though that if she never loved him, then that shoots Michael Martinez' theory in the foot that Gildor Inglorian was probably Finrod and Amarie's son.

Where can I read about his theory?