Why didn't Sauron lead the attacks?

[fatclown]

I belive you are overlooking the strategic element behind sauron's thinking. Alright. Sauron and Gandalf would not have been able to defeat eachother because neither presented a distinct advantage. Sauron's principal goal was to retreive his ring. In his current form as the lidless eye, all he was trying to do was find the ring. Only with the ring would he be able to defeat everything. I also think sauron didn't require a presence at that battle. Besides he had the Witch King of Angmar, an immensly powerful captain leading his forces, and gothmog, the luietenant of minas morgul.

Another thing, gandalf is very modest in his power. Both he and the balrog are of the same race, the maiar. But gandalf merely needed to die to unleash some of his power. As the white nothing the balrog could do could have defeated gandalf and was actually slain without difficulty, just a lot of effort on gandalf's part. Gandalf wasn't supposed to control people, he was merely a guider. He was supposed to help the people of middle earth, not exercise his power and do the job for them.

As for the battle of dagorlad, sauron is a spirit that inhabits BODIES he cannot be slain, but the flesh he had his ring on was cut off, forcing his spirit to flee. Like melkor, sauron can't die, he is merely banished to another realm. Also, the nazgul cannot be harmed by common steel, so they were definately worthy represenatives to lead his forces as he concentrated his efforts on retreiving the ring and keeping a vigil on mt. doom.

Another possibliity is the fact that if sauron was defeated in his physical form and banished to search for a new body, Mt. Doom would be left wide open for his ring's destruction

[Agburanar]

That is a good thought. The books say clearly that Sauron was not all-seeing and faced with that situation he would have seemed well-protected. I believe you have the answer!

[Comic Book Guy]

Doesn't it say somewhere that the Nazgûl are the apple of Saurons eye?

[Michael Martinez]

Grishnakh, leader of the Mordor Orcs who help the Uruk-hai try to escape with Merry and Pippin, says that the Nazgul are the apple of Sauron's eye when he rebukes Ugluk. See "The Uruk-hai" in The Two Towers.

[Comic Book Guy]

What did Grishnakh he mean by saying that the Nazgûl are the apple of the great eye?

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
What did Grishnakh he mean by saying that the Nazgûl are the apple of the great eye?

That usually means favorite.

[Michael Martinez]

"Apple of my eye", or something similar, is a Biblical expression.

[afro-elf]

there was one power sauron feared more than any other

a force so powerful that the war of wrath would seem like slap on the wrist

he feared .... tolkien fans

never has there walked in any age a more fierce power than the wings/no wings balrog warriors

he would have been CRUSHED in between the forces and then smoked like pipe weed

[Metus_of_Morgul]

Soron (as pronounced by Rhun soldiers in BFME) was in a conflict...

1.As many said,he had no clue where is his precious...
2. Why the hell is a small army of men attacking the massive black gate where he have dozens of army's?
3. Who is the spy who's male the orc brought to Barad Dur and why did he even survived?
4. And an all time fear for his faith,not to be as the faith of hist master ...to be banished to the void " There is no life in the void...only...death"
5. How did they killed his favorite Nazgul?
6. Iz d army of d dead still with Aragorn?

All in all the sinister Dark Lord was very nervous,I bet he felt the ring in some way...only he didn't (as many told) thought 2 hobbits are going to case it into the fire (Isildur didn't)

About his form I am in a confusion ... if he is an eye,he would NOT need a Palantir...or the eye is something that stares all time long in that Palantir and is connected to his brainz...and he just sits there on the top of Barad Dur wondering when will it rain in Nurn so he could feed his orcs...

[Serenoli]

By the way, somewhat incidental to this thread, have any of you seen the youtube parody 'How the Lord of the Rings should have ended'?

If you haven't, quick summary, it basically just shows Gandalf and Frodo riding Gwaihir into Mordor, dropping the ring into the fire, and then flying off quick and easy.

A friend of mine (who only watched the movies and whom I therefore count as uninformed on LotR :P) showed me the video, and we both had a laugh, but then he was like, 'yes, seriously, why didnt they do it this way?'

and though I came up with a few reasons (the necessity of being stealthy, the Cracks of Doom not open to the air etc.) it was still a bit difficult to argue it out esp since I haven't read the book in a while.

You guys have any thoughts?

[barrelrider110]

Originally Posted by Serenoli

By the way, somewhat incidental to this thread, have any of you seen the youtube parody 'How the Lord of the Rings should have ended'?

If you haven't, quick summary, it basically just shows Gandalf and Frodo riding Gwaihir into Mordor, dropping the ring into the fire, and then flying off quick and easy.

A friend of mine (who only watched the movies and whom I therefore count as uninformed on LotR :P) showed me the video, and we both had a laugh, but then he was like, 'yes, seriously, why didnt they do it this way?'

and though I came up with a few reasons (the necessity of being stealthy, the Cracks of Doom not open to the air etc.) it was still a bit difficult to argue it out esp since I haven't read the book in a while.

You guys have any thoughts?

The aerial drop would have been too open and too risky. You hit upon it Serenoli - stealth was required. That is the kind of attack Sauron would have expected. The eye never sleeps, so they would have been seen from far away, the ringwraiths would have attacked. And what if Frodo missed the crack? Then what? (The visual brings to mind Star Wars and the Death Star). Your friend had a good thought there. I myself have often wondered why two hobbits had the best chance.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Michael Martinez

Every time Sauron took a personal hand in his wars, he got his butt whipped. Staying in the Dark Tower was the practical thing to do.

Quoted for truth!

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by barrelrider110

The aerial drop would have been too open and too risky. You hit upon it Serenoli - stealth was required. That is the kind of attack Sauron would have expected. The eye never sleeps, so they would have been seen from far away, the ringwraiths would have attacked. And what if Frodo missed the crack? Then what? (The visual brings to mind Star Wars and the Death Star). Your friend had a good thought there. I myself have often wondered why two hobbits had the best chance.

Besides, Tolkien explicitly states that the Ring could only be destroyed at the Sammath Naur. Orodruin didn't have a caldera, anyway!

[Telcontar87]

I remember Tolkien saying in one of his letters that there would have been no point in just having someone fly an eagle with the Ring to Mordor. Basically because the characters needed the meaning of the journey, to grow, etc. (Makes total sense from a writer´s point of view

As for Sauron I believe he actually had a physical form during the War of the Ring and that it still was, as described elsewhere, of man shape but somewhat bigger (perhaps smaller than Morgoth). As he was when the Battle of the Last Alliance. Now with 9 fingers though He could not adopt any other form anymore, true, but I don´t think he was just "an eye". Gollum saw him. The elves may have seen him flight from Dol Guldur when they attacked him too?

Why not come out and fight? As many of you said, strategy and caution (and a bit of fear too)

[Lefty Scaevola]

Sauron had apparrently decided that overwhelming numbers, massing on every front, and massive reserves, so that the west would be pinned and attritted in place, unable to manuever and unable to support each other, was his route to victory. In his prior wars, he often wound up short an army or two in critical places. Controlling, manuevering, supplying, and supporting these millions of troops all over the continent, including huge forces to prevent rebellions, took up his constant attention.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Telcontar87

I remember Tolkien saying in one of his letters that there would have been no point in just having someone fly an eagle with the Ring to Mordor. Basically because the characters needed the meaning of the journey, to grow, etc. (Makes total sense from a writer´s point of view

As for Sauron I believe he actually had a physical form during the War of the Ring and that it still was, as described elsewhere, of man shape but somewhat bigger (perhaps smaller than Morgoth). As he was when the Battle of the Last Alliance. Now with 9 fingers though He could not adopt any other form anymore, true, but I don´t think he was just "an eye". Gollum saw him. The elves may have seen him flight from Dol Guldur when they attacked him too?

Why not come out and fight? As many of you said, strategy and caution (and a bit of fear too)

Which letter? I don't recall that.

[Telcontar87]

I don't have the book with me at the moment. All I could find (through online research) is a reference to letter 210, where Tolkien comments on the story-line of a script of LOTR submitted to him, and its treatment.

He says there: "The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility or usefulness."

And again later: "At the bottom of the page, the Eagles are again introduced. I feel this to be a wholly unacceptable tampering with the tale. 'Nine Walkers' and they immediately go up in the air! The intrusion achieves nothing but incredibility, and the staling of the device of the Eagles when at last they are really needed."

Although this is not what I said I remembered. Once I get hold of the book I will have a good look!

[Attalus]

What is being ignored here is that Orodruin had no caldera; no open crater at the summit. The only access to the Fire that could alone destroy the Ruling Ring was at the Sammath Naur, where Sauron forged it in the first place, a cave in the side of Orodruin.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Attalus

What is being ignored here is that Orodruin had no caldera; no open crater at the summit. The only access to the Fire that could alone destroy the Ruling Ring was at the Sammath Naur, where Sauron forged it in the first place, a cave in the side of Orodruin.

Still, an eagle could have carried someone to the entrance, no?

[Lefty Scaevola]

As paranoid about security and spies as Sauron was, I am confident that he would have invested in defense against known agencies of his foes, the eagles, other flying creatures of Radaghast, etc and had means to defend his stronghold area against flying spies and incursions. Such, of course, were never mentioned or tested in the books, the eagles not entering Modror until after Sauron's fall. Not having mentioned anywhere such as at the council of Elrond or the meeting of Gandalf and Radagast any sort of arial intelligence of Mordor, when obviously it would have been of crucial importance, is some indicia that it was not practically available (Whereas we do have mention of Radgast's birds tracking the movements of some of Sauron's forces to the East). If arial intelligence is unavailable, arial insertion is less so. Sauron has large flying beasties large enough to carry armored Nazghul, and Saruman has the service of large flocks of crows, it is reasonable to believe that Sauron has forces of flying birds and beasties to defend his critical airspace (I have always imagined killer bats for night patrol, among others). Keep in mind that Sauron controlled a majority of the populations and resources of a Eurasia+Africa size continent.