Pluses and minuses, but the best film in history - Page 3

arrogantprick · 01-04-2002, 07:02 PM

If I decide to eat my words, you'll see it first here at Entmoot.

bropous · 01-04-2002, 08:58 PM

Well-spoken, AP. You have raised your stature in this Elven Warrior's eyes. I gotta dmit I need to stop judging a fellow 'mooter based on a few postings. Hopefully I've learned a lesson here. Wish I had broken my teeth on the Entmoot rather than the IRC #politics channel, maybe then I'd be less scrappy!

I hope you'll change your mind on the film as well, but if you don't, heck, your opinion is still vaild. Reviewing film is a deeply subjective matter, and I bloody well need to remember that more often! Fair play to you!

arrogantprick · 01-04-2002, 09:14 PM

Bropous : Well met my friend. Consider your stature similarly raised and a lesson similarly learned.

I too have cut my teeth on scrappier, more adversarial boards and admit I have to try hard sometimes to leave that scrappiness where it belongs and were it is understood in context. In hindsight my initial posts may well have reflected some of this scrappines, so I am as much to blame for first impressions.

No harm, no foul.

***anduin*** · 01-05-2002, 01:07 AM

I was very tempted to reread FOTR before I went into the movie, but I thought it would certainly ruin it for me to have it so fresh in my mind. Instead I decided to reread it after I saw the movie. That was certainly the way to go for me...hehe, and it didn't cost me a cent to be back in Middle-earth.

I really do hope that you watch it again and come away with a better opinion. I thought it was a wonderful movie and feel bad for those fans that thought it was terrible. IMO it could have been a hell of a lot worse and was very thankful that PJ pulled it off as well as he did. Please let us know if you see it again and what your opinion is.

arrogantprick · 01-05-2002, 01:39 AM

I shall Anduin.....I must admit that I hesitated to read the book again so soon before the movie and considered doing it the way you did, but alas, it appears I made the wrong choice.

ringbearer · 01-05-2002, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by anduin
I was very tempted to reread FOTR before I went into the movie, but I thought it would certainly ruin it for me to have it so fresh in my mind. Instead I decided to reread it after I saw the movie. That was certainly the way to go for me...hehe, and it didn't cost me a cent to be back in Middle-earth.

Hmm! I was just the opposite! But I think I reread LotR(yes, all of it) right before the film's release because all of the renewed interst...made me yearn to read it again!

bropous · 01-05-2002, 02:23 AM

For me, it had been a couple of years sicne I had read the trilogy for the twenty-third time. Immediately after seeing the film for the first time, I picked up The Two Towers that afternoon and devoured it and Return of the King, and then backtracked to read Fellowship of the Ring to complete my twenty-fourth journey with Frodo to the Cracks of Doom.

Mayhaps had I done time twenty-four PRIOR to seeing the film, I might have come away not thinking it is the greatest film in history [for me, that is, let's not get into THAT again!

]. I am beginning to see that timing might very well affect opinions of the film.

So interesting to learn all the different ways we all approached seeing this film! I'm headed to the theater tomorrow for viewing #5...after a good brisk strenuous hike on the slopes of Mount Mindolluin [Pikes Peak] and a nice lunch...however, with all the snow up there, me and my hiking friends may be re-enacting some of the calmer moments on Mount Caradhras!

At least we won't have Saruman throwing storms our way...certainly will make those scenes a lot more poignant!

CardenIAntauraNauco · 01-05-2002, 02:26 AM

Have you ever been to Gunnison Bropous?

bropous · 01-05-2002, 02:39 AM

Yuppers, Carden, I've been to Gunnision and seen what we call "The Brown Gulley of the Gunnison" [The Black Canyon of the Gunnison, that is]. We weren't all that impressed, but it DID afford me the very first view in person of the most breathtaking mountain range I have ever seen, The San Juan Mountains. We're camping in the wilderness in the San Juans for a week this June; we have to ride the narrow-guage train in, hike 16 miles up to the campsite at the foot of Mt Eolus, then hike back out four days later to catch the train at a lonely wilderness platform...

Talk about the Misty Mountains incarnate; jagged, sharktoothed, massive peaks, white-capped, onerous and foreboding....and an incredibly beautiful ecosystem, a magical corner of this state of geologic sorcery!

Right now, Gunnison is as cold as the farthest reaches of the Ice Bay of Forochel...it's one of the coldest spots in the state, oddly enough. Glad you're familiar with it!

Had they filmed FotR in the US, it would have been a perfect place for the scenes between Rivendell and Moria.

ringbearer · 01-05-2002, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrogantprick
I shall Anduin.....I must admit that I hesitated to read the book again so soon before the movie and considered doing it the way you did, but alas, it appears I made the wrong choice.

Alas, no offense, but I do not like your choice of screen-name either...I am not personally offended by it...I just do not think it is right for this message board.

CardenIAntauraNauco · 01-05-2002, 11:17 AM

I use to live there... On the way out to the blue mesa resevoir and to montrose. There's a big tin church...I used to live there. It's about 1 mile out of town in that direction.

I think ringbearer is right it is simply not suitable for a forum.

Pailan · 01-05-2002, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrogantprick
Pailan:

BTW - My nick is a carry over from a different MB and perhaps its innappropriate on this one. If so I apologise.

Might I be so bold as to suggest a new one? How about Aragorntprick?

bropous · 01-05-2002, 11:20 AM

I can understand being a bit put off by AP's nick, ringbearer, but I for one think AP should keep it. I don't think it's really all that inappropriate for the message board, and as for me, I learned a good lesson in that I made the wrong snap assumption about the poster from taking umbrage at the nick.

Aside from living up to the full definition of the nick, AP had posted some insightful comments and bridged the gap to several of us who got off on the wrong foot. That was a valuable service, in your humble fellow Elven Warrior's opinion, and if the nick stays the same, I for one will be reminded of my own mistakes and will endeavor all the more to keep things on the up-and-up and on a friendly basis.

I think we should all choose our own nicks, and just go ahead and accept the choices of others. I know you were just voicing a friendly opinion, and please don't take this as a slap of any variety, for it is not so intended.

bropous · 01-05-2002, 11:31 AM

Quoth Pailan: "Might I be so bold as to suggest a new one? How about Aragorntprick?"

Brilliant idea, Pailan, that really made me give a good laugh on a frosty morning.

Hmmmm......maybe I should consider changing my nick too.....maybe Breepous?

Oh well, back to the thread. Today we go back to the theater, my fifth time, my girlfriend's third time, and are bringing our hiking buddies along. I can't remember going to the theater to see a film this many times since I was a younger fella and begged me Mum to the point of her everlasting frustration to drive me to Lake Charles Louisiana from Sulphur to see Star Wars in its first release over and over again. Not since then has a film so captured my imagination, not since then have I fallen so much in love with a work of film at a theater. I rate this one up there with "Barry Lyndon" and "Breaker Morant", "Gallipoli" and "The Lighthorsemen", "Zulu", "The Ten Commandments", "Ben Hur", "The Poseidon Adventure", "Star Wars", or any of my other favorite films. Mr. Jackson's masterwork of my best-loved books ranks at the top of my list.

Of course, if Saruman actually does "die on a spike at Orthanc", the rating is gonna slip...and, I might admit, rather precipitously! Or if Gollum turns out to be just another "Jar-Jar Binks"! LOL!

andustar · 01-11-2002, 10:38 AM

yes, agreed

I've seen it only ...well.... once... (I was supposed to go last week but it didn't work out, am going tomorrow. Hopefully) I loved it, although there were a few lines and so on (and ELROND!) which I didn't like, but overall I thought it was amazing.

I am dreading finding out what that damn "wizard kebab" picture was from. But hopefully it won't be too bad.... right????

Laurelyn · 01-22-2002, 09:53 PM

Yes, I think it's the greatest film in history, but don't listen to me because I just about never see movies, so I can't compare it to much. I think, however, that it was a great movie, ratings and greatest movie/worst movie/ whatever aside.
Andustar, I too am dreading the Rolling Spiked Wheelie-Dealie, or wizard kabob (Whatever it's called!) in the next films, whenever it pops up.

jerseydevil · 01-23-2002, 02:10 PM

It was an okay movie and I didn't hate it - but even as just a movie, it doesn't compare to a lot of others. It doesn't even compare to Gladiator IMO.

I agree with most of what arrogantprick said on his first post - except for the fact the the movie sucked. It didn't suck - but it did have a lot ot be desired. I was going into LOTR actually thinking I was going to like it - I had been looking forward to it. But the movie fell too short on too many points. Even removing the fact that it didn't follow the book - there was hardly any character development.

I also agree that Merry and Pippin just came off as a couple of buffoons. They were innocent - like someone coming from a small town and seeing NY for the first time - not imbeciles.

Imbecile does basically describe Pippin and Merry in the movie -

Quote:

1 : a mentally deficient person; especially : a feebleminded person having a mental age of three to seven years and requiring supervision in the performance of routine daily tasks of self-care
2 : FOOL, IDIOT

It really bugged me that Jackson changed them from being wided-eyed innocents to just a couple of clowns to provide the comic relief.

olsonm · 01-23-2002, 02:46 PM

I agree that Pippen was something of an idiot, but Merry seemed quite insightful. Maybe you're refering to the haphazard way in which they joined the Frodo and the fellowship.

jerseydevil · 01-23-2002, 05:41 PM

I had a hard time telling them apart through most of the movie. But now that I think about it - Merry did come off a little (just a little) smarter than Pippin. I still think both of them came off a little goofy and less as if they were just innocent though.

olsonm · 01-23-2002, 10:16 PM

Hey, jerseydevil, assuming the dvd rumors are true (meaning the extra footage) do you think there will be more 'character moments' or will it be mostly action stuff?

01-04-2002, 08:58 PM	#42
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Well-spoken, AP. You have raised your stature in this Elven Warrior's eyes. I gotta dmit I need to stop judging a fellow 'mooter based on a few postings. Hopefully I've learned a lesson here. Wish I had broken my teeth on the Entmoot rather than the IRC #politics channel, maybe then I'd be less scrappy! I hope you'll change your mind on the film as well, but if you don't, heck, your opinion is still vaild. Reviewing film is a deeply subjective matter, and I bloody well need to remember that more often! Fair play to you! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-05-2002, 02:23 AM	#47
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	For me, it had been a couple of years sicne I had read the trilogy for the twenty-third time. Immediately after seeing the film for the first time, I picked up The Two Towers that afternoon and devoured it and Return of the King, and then backtracked to read Fellowship of the Ring to complete my twenty-fourth journey with Frodo to the Cracks of Doom. Mayhaps had I done time twenty-four PRIOR to seeing the film, I might have come away not thinking it is the greatest film in history [for me, that is, let's not get into THAT again! ]. I am beginning to see that timing might very well affect opinions of the film. So interesting to learn all the different ways we all approached seeing this film! I'm headed to the theater tomorrow for viewing #5...after a good brisk strenuous hike on the slopes of Mount Mindolluin [Pikes Peak] and a nice lunch...however, with all the snow up there, me and my hiking friends may be re-enacting some of the calmer moments on Mount Caradhras! At least we won't have Saruman throwing storms our way...certainly will make those scenes a lot more poignant! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-05-2002, 02:26 AM	#48
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	Have you ever been to Gunnison Bropous? __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

01-05-2002, 02:39 AM	#49
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Yuppers, Carden, I've been to Gunnision and seen what we call "The Brown Gulley of the Gunnison" [The Black Canyon of the Gunnison, that is]. We weren't all that impressed, but it DID afford me the very first view in person of the most breathtaking mountain range I have ever seen, The San Juan Mountains. We're camping in the wilderness in the San Juans for a week this June; we have to ride the narrow-guage train in, hike 16 miles up to the campsite at the foot of Mt Eolus, then hike back out four days later to catch the train at a lonely wilderness platform... Talk about the Misty Mountains incarnate; jagged, sharktoothed, massive peaks, white-capped, onerous and foreboding....and an incredibly beautiful ecosystem, a magical corner of this state of geologic sorcery! Right now, Gunnison is as cold as the farthest reaches of the Ice Bay of Forochel...it's one of the coldest spots in the state, oddly enough. Glad you're familiar with it! Had they filmed FotR in the US, it would have been a perfect place for the scenes between Rivendell and Moria. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-05-2002, 11:17 AM	#51
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	I use to live there... On the way out to the blue mesa resevoir and to montrose. There's a big tin church...I used to live there. It's about 1 mile out of town in that direction. I think ringbearer is right it is simply not suitable for a forum. __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

01-04-2002, 07:02 PM	#41
arrogantprick Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10	If I decide to eat my words, you'll see it first here at Entmoot.

01-04-2002, 09:14 PM	#43
arrogantprick Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10	Bropous : Well met my friend. Consider your stature similarly raised and a lesson similarly learned. I too have cut my teeth on scrappier, more adversarial boards and admit I have to try hard sometimes to leave that scrappiness where it belongs and were it is understood in context. In hindsight my initial posts may well have reflected some of this scrappines, so I am as much to blame for first impressions. No harm, no foul.

01-05-2002, 01:07 AM	#44
*anduin* Entwife Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: louisville Posts: 3,718	I was very tempted to reread FOTR before I went into the movie, but I thought it would certainly ruin it for me to have it so fresh in my mind. Instead I decided to reread it after I saw the movie. That was certainly the way to go for me...hehe, and it didn't cost me a cent to be back in Middle-earth. I really do hope that you watch it again and come away with a better opinion. I thought it was a wonderful movie and feel bad for those fans that thought it was terrible. IMO it could have been a hell of a lot worse and was very thankful that PJ pulled it off as well as he did. Please let us know if you see it again and what your opinion is.

01-05-2002, 01:39 AM	#45
arrogantprick Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10	I shall Anduin.....I must admit that I hesitated to read the book again so soon before the movie and considered doing it the way you did, but alas, it appears I made the wrong choice.

01-05-2002, 11:20 AM	#53
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I can understand being a bit put off by AP's nick, ringbearer, but I for one think AP should keep it. I don't think it's really all that inappropriate for the message board, and as for me, I learned a good lesson in that I made the wrong snap assumption about the poster from taking umbrage at the nick. Aside from living up to the full definition of the nick, AP had posted some insightful comments and bridged the gap to several of us who got off on the wrong foot. That was a valuable service, in your humble fellow Elven Warrior's opinion, and if the nick stays the same, I for one will be reminded of my own mistakes and will endeavor all the more to keep things on the up-and-up and on a friendly basis. I think we should all choose our own nicks, and just go ahead and accept the choices of others. I know you were just voicing a friendly opinion, and please don't take this as a slap of any variety, for it is not so intended. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-05-2002, 11:31 AM	#54
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Quoth Pailan: "Might I be so bold as to suggest a new one? How about Aragorntprick?" Brilliant idea, Pailan, that really made me give a good laugh on a frosty morning. Hmmmm......maybe I should consider changing my nick too.....maybe Breepous? Oh well, back to the thread. Today we go back to the theater, my fifth time, my girlfriend's third time, and are bringing our hiking buddies along. I can't remember going to the theater to see a film this many times since I was a younger fella and begged me Mum to the point of her everlasting frustration to drive me to Lake Charles Louisiana from Sulphur to see Star Wars in its first release over and over again. Not since then has a film so captured my imagination, not since then have I fallen so much in love with a work of film at a theater. I rate this one up there with "Barry Lyndon" and "Breaker Morant", "Gallipoli" and "The Lighthorsemen", "Zulu", "The Ten Commandments", "Ben Hur", "The Poseidon Adventure", "Star Wars", or any of my other favorite films. Mr. Jackson's masterwork of my best-loved books ranks at the top of my list. Of course, if Saruman actually does "die on a spike at Orthanc", the rating is gonna slip...and, I might admit, rather precipitously! Or if Gollum turns out to be just another "Jar-Jar Binks"! LOL! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-11-2002, 10:38 AM	#55
andustar Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: London Posts: 217	yes, agreed I've seen it only ...well.... once... (I was supposed to go last week but it didn't work out, am going tomorrow. Hopefully) I loved it, although there were a few lines and so on (and ELROND!) which I didn't like, but overall I thought it was amazing. I am dreading finding out what that damn "wizard kebab" picture was from. But hopefully it won't be too bad.... right???? __________________ ~ andustar/shani

01-22-2002, 09:53 PM	#56
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Yes, I think it's the greatest film in history, but don't listen to me because I just about never see movies, so I can't compare it to much. I think, however, that it was a great movie, ratings and greatest movie/worst movie/ whatever aside. Andustar, I too am dreading the Rolling Spiked Wheelie-Dealie, or wizard kabob (Whatever it's called!) in the next films, whenever it pops up. __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

01-23-2002, 02:46 PM	#58
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	I agree that Pippen was something of an idiot, but Merry seemed quite insightful. Maybe you're refering to the haphazard way in which they joined the Frodo and the fellowship.

01-23-2002, 05:41 PM	#59
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I had a hard time telling them apart through most of the movie. But now that I think about it - Merry did come off a little (just a little) smarter than Pippin. I still think both of them came off a little goofy and less as if they were just innocent though. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

01-23-2002, 10:16 PM	#60
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	Hey, jerseydevil, assuming the dvd rumors are true (meaning the extra footage) do you think there will be more 'character moments' or will it be mostly action stuff?

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