UK Politics

[Janny]

Or indeed the droid clonoids of the Labour party. No, really. I really believe in destroying the country. No. I won't accept that Tony Blair has ever lied.

Gaffer, might I enquire as to whether you actually read the article in question? Either you haven't, or you missed the fact that the response it received only went to prove the point it was making.

"Under the carefully crafted veneer of a blithering baffoon... lies a blithering baffoon" ~ Boris Johnson.
The man knows what he's doing.

[Janny]

Go to Google
Search for 'opportunist'
Click "I'm Feeling Lucky!"

Boris has friends in hidden places.

[sun-star]

This is why we need Boris...

Way of the World
By Craig Brown

Far from dull

Just because Boris has left, it doesn't mean the remaining members of the shadow cabinet lack colour. Far from it! Here are just a few fascinating details about this wild and crazy bunch!

1) Tim Collins really thought he had done badly in his GCS maths paper – but he emerged with an A grade! "I must have done something right!" he quips. He is also fond of "pop" music, and often plays his much-loved cassette of Abba's Greatest Hits when he is in his car. "But I always take care not to play it too loud," he adds, "as I do not wish to upset my fellow drivers".

His hobbies include management consultancy.

2) Michael Ancram once drove in a "bumper car" at Taunton World of Amusements. "It was about seven or eight years ago," he explains. "I wouldn't say I didn't enjoy the ride – but it was certainly rather bumpy!" His hobbies include playing the folk guitar "but not too loud". Last year, he mastered Streets of London by Ralph McTell. "Though I always like to remind my audiences that London has greatly improved since Mr McTell wrote the song. And let me make this absolutely clear: I fully support London's Olympic bid."

3) David Davis is widely seen as "a bit of a character". He often "breaks the ice" at parties in his constituency by performing his famous imitation of Michael Crawford in Some Mothers Do 'Ave Em. "It was an absolute classic comedy programme" he says, "and when I say, "ooh, Betty" people really crease up!" But he also has a serious side. Last year he read "and quite enjoyed" two modern novels by bestselling authors while on holiday in Portugal. "But don't ask me to name them!" he adds.

4) As a schoolboy, David Willetts earned a Blue Peter badge for building a traction engine entirely from parts of old clocks. He remembers being invited to the studio to receive his badge. "I continue to admire Peter Purves as a great communicator," he says. He is still considered one of the brainiest members of the shadow cabinet – but insists that he has an "outward bound" side to him as well. Willetts once went on a 10-day camping expedition in the Dordogne.

"The weather was quite blustery for the time of year – but I survived!" he recalls, adding: "One's gap year is an excellent time to enjoy a bit of an adventure."

5) Michael Howard owns three different pairs of spectacles. "I have long considered that four would be rather too many," he told Sue Lawley when he appeared on Desert Island Discs this year, "whilst on the other hand two would be rather too few. In my opinion, three is just about right, Sue."

His chosen records included top 10 hits by Phil Collins, The Eagles and U2 and, on a more classical note, Vivaldi's Four Seasons.

6) Theresa May is famous for her shoes. "When it comes to my shoes, people think of me as quite a character!" she reveals. But though she takes a keen interest in fashion, she always makes sure her shoes fit well before buying them.

"I would advise anyone when choosing a shoe to try it on first, just to make sure it fits," she says. She doesn't know how many shoes she currently possesses. "Let's just say – quite a lot!" she quips. When she arrives home after a busy day on the front bench, this part-time management consultant often kicks off her shoes. "I find it helps me relax." But when she wakes up the next day, she is always careful to put a pair of shoes on before setting out to work.

7) Liam Fox is no relation to the topless model Sam Fox. "In fact, I have never even met her," he says. He is a keen gardener, though he admits that "sometimes it is hard to keep on top of your garden, particularly during the spring, when everything seems to start growing at once!" As a child, he had a stamp collection. "I don't suppose it had anything particularly valuable in it," he adds, "though that didn't stop me feeling a tremendous sense of pride in my first-day cover to celebrate of the marriage of Princess Anne and Captain Mark Phillips." He is also a dedicated movie buff, and boasts of having seen every film in which Tom Cruise has starred.

8) Andrew Lamsley has a collection of more than 40 different neckties.

"Some were given me as presents, and some I bought myself," says the former management consultant. "And frankly I can't remember where on earth one or two of them came from!" He also possesses two black bow-ties. "I don't approve of the ready-tied variety," he reveals. He is also the proud owner of a chocolate-coloured labrador called, appropriately enough, "Chocolate".

9) If you want to know anything about Tuscany, management consultant Caroline Spelman is the person to turn to. "We've been going there for our summer holidays for eight years now, on and off," she explains. "So we know it pretty well. It's in Italy." Caroline also enjoys music "though nothing too loud".

10) David MacLean, a former management consultant once held his breath for 55 seconds. "I didn't quite make the minute," he laughs. He is also a keen walker. His favourite recording artistes include Celine Dion, Dido and Gerry and the Pacemakers. Known in Conservative Central Office as something of a wit, he once entertained a dinner party with three "knock-knock" jokes on the trot. "I love jokes, but I'm terribly bad at remembering them," he adds, modestly.

[Janny]

Ah yes! I read that today too. Marvellous.

On the topic of excellent parodies: did anyone read that Billy Bragg rewrite of 'I vow to thee my country'? It was very accurate and typical of the kind of crass crap these people usually destroy decent hymns with.

[sun-star]

Oh, I can't stand Billy Bragg. I don't really know why but he makes my skin crawl...

Janny, did you see the picture of Boris in the paper today? I can't find a link to it, but he looked like your hero in his cycling clothes - and his bandana

[Draken]

Just remembered something that struck me at the time of the party conferences...

Does anyone remember Michael Howard's big speech? I was amazed the irony of it wasn't commented on at the time, but I'm CERTAIN that in the same speech he spoke of the need to only allow limited immigration before going on to express his gratitude to a country that took in his family as they fled wartime Europe.

Presumably his gratitude would have been lessened if someone at Dover with a clip board had said stooped them and said "Sorry mate, we're up to quota..."

[The Gaffer]

Yes, he did. Shamelessly playing to the Dail Mail choir.

Mea culpa, Janny, I didn't read his original article.

Having spent last week commuting to London, I got to read the paper from cover to cover nearly every day! Bliss.

Things that were hot were:
- fox hunting: the Parliament Act was invoked to force the ban through onto the statute books. It will come into effect next year, probably just around General Election time. Ha ha ha! Tony Blair has been wishing it would go away for so long, and now he's going to have half the country dumping sileage on motorways right in the middle of the campaign. Serves him right.
- MMR - did anyone see the Dispatches programme about Wakefield? The man should be strung up.
- Prince Charles complained about people getting ideas above their station; Charles Clarke (the Education secretary) told him to keep his big ears and stupid comments to himself (I paraphrase slightly).
- the Bloody Sunday inquiry finishes today, after 6 years. It was into the killing by British paratroopers of 14 unarmed civil rights marchers on Bloody Sunday, January 30 1972.

Any takers? Are we going to see mass revolution in the countryside? When IS Prince Charles going to shut his gob and leave architecture/health care/education/whatever to people who know what they're talking about? etc.

[Janny]

While I understand the irony of a heridary kind of chap commenting on having to work for things, I don't think the comments were all that unreasonable. What? I may not be good enough at football to play for Man U?!
I have written to Charles Clarke requesting that he resign and that I take his job, given that I should be able to do it.

These comment Gaffer... I just wonder who will you vote for?

And a note on Bloody Sunday: is it right the report won't actually be released until next Summer?

[The Gaffer]

Well, but are people actually thinking they are going to play for Man U or is he just a seething mass of uptight rage about something vaguely to do with developments in education since he went to Gordonstoun?

In answer to your question, I really have no idea Janny. I can't stomach the idea of voting for Blair, yet I think that many of them are going good work. Not voting is not on the agenda either, so it might have to be the LibDems.

[Dwarven Sen]

I'm sorry you guys, I know as a student I'm meant to protest against everything and yada yada yada...

I'm just so fed up with the entire british political mess. No one has enough faith in any particular political party for a party to get enough votes to rule the country with the belief of the country behind it.

I've heard that democracy is just another word for arguement, but no party is actually prepared to set out a manifesto anymore, in case (God forbid) they have to stick to it.

The only things they are prepared to say is, oh we'll do a better job of governing than these lot, but they never say how. Who am I meant to have faith in anymore? Does anyone actually believe that a current party would make a good ruling body?

Sorry for the political depression of mine, it's because it's Monday.

[sun-star]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

- Prince Charles complained about people getting ideas above their station; Charles Clarke (the Education secretary) told him to keep his big ears and stupid comments to himself (I paraphrase slightly).

Charles Clarke commenting on someone else's ears! That I'd love to see


*continues to be excessively amused by that image*

*sobers up*

Originally Posted by Dwarven Sen

I'm just so fed up with the entire british political mess. No one has enough faith in any particular political party for a party to get enough votes to rule the country with the belief of the country behind it.

I've heard that democracy is just another word for arguement, but no party is actually prepared to set out a manifesto anymore, in case (God forbid) they have to stick to it.

The only things they are prepared to say is, oh we'll do a better job of governing than these lot, but they never say how. Who am I meant to have faith in anymore? Does anyone actually believe that a current party would make a good ruling body?

I know exactly what you mean. I was actually going to start a thread on this a while back - is political disillusionment inevitable? Is it really not possible for politicians to be honest and trustworthy and interesting, for heaven's sake? There isn't a real choice or debate in politics - the parties compete to say the blandest thing possible in order not to offend anyone. The next election is going to be pointless:

Labour: We want to ban something! Or legalise something in a totally inconsistent manner!
Conservatives: We won't say we won't ban and/or legalise something, but we won't say we won't think of not banning and/or legalising it. Our position on this is clear.
Lib Dems: We don't have opinions on anything, but it doesn't matter because everyone will vote for us anyway!

The issues which are around at the moment are important ones, and some of the policies that are around (Labour and Conservative) are good ones, but there isn't one leading politician who can talk about politics in a way which shows how important it is. No wonder the electorate are apathetic when all politicians (except Boris, bless him) are competing with each other to make politics seem as boring as possible.

People should be fired up about politics, and that can only happen if they have politicians they can believe in and respect. The US election was interesting because people cared about it. There was a choice to make about trust and ideology. What's the choice for us in 2005?

[Dwarven Sen]

I love your role-play of politics.

I was going to vote conservative, thinking that they had more experience than lib-dem in ruling, but then he fired Boris. So now I've totally lost faith in them. So green party it will be.

[Janny]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Well, but are people actually thinking they are going to play for Man U or is he just a seething mass of uptight rage about something vaguely to do with developments in education since he went to Gordonstoun?

In answer to your question, I really have no idea Janny. I can't stomach the idea of voting for Blair, yet I think that many of them are going good work. Not voting is not on the agenda either, so it might have to be the LibDems.

The LibDems? I thought you had dignity man... No, it is a tough call. Fortunately, I can be apathetic and fell no guilt. Until Dec 06 at least...

I suspect Charles Wales was just despairing at the politicians the state schools had produced.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

- fox hunting: the Parliament Act was invoked to force the ban through onto the statute books. It will come into effect next year, probably just around General Election time. Ha ha ha! Tony Blair has been wishing it would go away for so long, and now he's going to have half the country dumping sileage on motorways right in the middle of the campaign. Serves him right.

What does everyone think about this? IMO it is no worse than fishing. That to is killing animals.

[Janny]

Funny you should mention that... that's PETA's next big offensive...
You wait till we discover grass feels pain when you walk on it... just wait...

[BeardofPants]

TD, you don't see a problem with deliberately letting a fox out, then sicking vicious dogs onto it to tear it to pieces?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Isn't it along the sam lines as spending a day going out to kill fish for fun?

[sun-star]

Did you know that Tony Blair has never expressed his personal opinion on hunting? Obviously he's leading the Govt in banning it, but he's never opposed or supported it in anything which can be quoted to him personally. Apparently when journalists ask him what his opinion is, he says "It hasn't changed since you last asked me". Except he's been saying that since 1997 so he's never stated his opinion.

This is what I mean about politicians being afraid to offend people. What difference would it make now if he said he's against hunting? Pro-hunters aren't going to like him any less for it. Why can't he just say what he actually believes in?

[Earniel]

I don't think you can compare foxes with fish like that. For one, they belong to different families (mammals and fish) with different traits in physiology and mental capacities. So, no, I definitely wouldn't call it allong the same lines. Also, you don't tear your life fish to pieces, right?

What I'm surprised about is that I hear so many calls of people saying they will ignore the ban anyway and continue to hunt as they please. Strangely I heard no reactions against that, but ignoring the ban just because you don't feel like it still is civil disobedience, not?

[Draken]

Originally Posted by sun-star

The US election was interesting because people cared about it. There was a choice to make about trust and ideology. What's the choice for us in 2005?

Right observation, wrong conclusion, for my money. Half wrong anyway. With an absolute lack of ideology, people cared about things that in most democracies would be fringe issues - gay marriages, biomedical ethics and, God help them, religious rectitude. Let's not kid ourselves that Kerry was anything other than a candidate who was pretty much as acceptable as Bush to the big money sponsors without which an American election campaign cannot be mounted.

We've been through crappy 'tax, spend and nationalise everything' Old Labour and crappy 'no such thing as society who needs a manufacturing base anyway?' Conservatives. While the Tories weren't looking, New Labour stole the middle ground. After spending most of the 20th century as the 'middle way', the Lib Dems find themselves as the radical force in British politics - and look terrified at the prospect.

I don't mind that too much - veering between dogmatic socialism and dogmatic conservatism hasn't done us that much good in the past in my opinion. Dogmatic ANYTHING is crap because dogma is an excuse for not thinking. But dogmatism hasn't been replaced by rationalism - just by an overwhelming desire to top polls and get elected, no matter what it takes.