Jewish Dwarves?

[Midge]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Stereotyping much?

The only stereotype is the affinity for precious metals and jewels. The rest of them are facts. But stereotypes don't pop up out of nowhere. They may not apply to every single person in a group, but they must be true for at least a portion, or else they would not be associated with that group.

As for the idea of the Dwarves being similar to the Jews, Tolkien himself made the distinction:

Tolkien also elaborated on Jewish influence on his Dwarves in a letter: "I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue..."

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_%28Middle-earth%29.

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

I just can't picture them foregoing pork products!

You got me there.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Midge

they must be true for at least a portion

Careful now. You'll be taking on the squinty-eyed southerners next.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Midge

But stereotypes don't pop up out of nowhere. They may not apply to every single person in a group, but they must be true for at least a portion, or else they would not be associated with that group.

Good grief you dont need to try to justify terrible stereotypes (especially with the logic of it must be true if its a stereotype...). Its totally legitimate to make the comparison and say Tolkien may have been influenced by the stereotype (right or wrong. I would also mention the beards and the noses for what its worth...) without defending it as a truth. These books were written during a period of real turbulence for European jews after all so its not far fetched that there would indeed be a parallel. But careful with the whole "those greedy penny pinching Dwarves" approach and then trying to defend it just based on the logic that its such a widely held stereotype. With that same logic are "shiftless lazy" blacks a defendable stereotype as well? Who knows where Tolkien got the inspiration for his spear chucking swarthy Haradrim after all...

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

iWho knows where Tolkien got the inspiration for his spear chucking swarthy Haradrim after all...

I do- the Muslims challenging Christendom in the Middle Ages.

How about

“out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues”

Stereotypical Africans.

“…countless companies of Men of a new sort that we have not met before. Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come, we deem.”

Slavs.

It's easy!(No, I'm not joking.)

[Valandil]

I don't think Tolkien invented these traits for Dwarves. I think this is how they have been perceived going back to ancient literature. If there are similarities between how Dwarves are described with how some would categorize the Jewish race - those are not of JRRT's contrivance.

Similarly - for those representations of people from other parts of the world (than northern Europe) - he was drawing on perceptions that the ancients would have had. From times when people groups were largely isolated. Except for when one group migrated and invaded another.

These works were not written to hold a modern, 20th century viewpoint - but an ancient one.

[Jon S.]

It's been a very long time since I posted here but I'd like to say that, as a Jew, I myself am not insulted (yet!) by any of the discussion or comparisons here. And I have a lot of respect for the Dwarvish culture and characteristics in the LOTR. They were good folk, it's not a bad thing to be compared to them.

As has been noted, there are some are historical similarities, others cultural, others externally-generated stereotypes which no people of any race, ethnicity, or religion can fully control others from choosing.

There are also examples where the similarities/stereotypes break down. One example is how the Dwarves followed the Eldar, whereas the Jews, of course, preceded the Christians and Muslims. Another is the relative birthrates. Children are uncommon for Dwarves whereas Jewish families are traditionally been large (pork, it's true, is off limits but sex within marriage is more than encouraged ).

One similarity that hasn't been mentioned is the shared yearning to return to one's ancestral/aboriginal homeland. It's a strong and shared trait between the Jews and the Dwarves. We call ours Zionism. What do/would the Dwarves call theirs?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

We call ours Zionism. What do/would the Dwarves call theirs?

Thrórianism? Oakenshieldism?

[Valandil]

More like "Durinism"... or better yet, "Khazad-dumism"

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

I

One similarity that hasn't been mentioned is the shared yearning to return to one's ancestral/aboriginal homeland. It's a strong and shared trait between the Jews and the Dwarves.

<cough>

On a more specific level, the entire theme of 'The Hobbit' is return from exile to the homeland from they have been driven out- and in LOTR the major part of the story dealing with Dwarves is the section in Moria- with the same theme.