Free Will

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by crodgers148

I was wondering if I could possibly get some help (thoughts, specifics, etc.) on a thesis I am working on. The prompt in which I am writing a paper on (rather short, at 2-3 pages) is the following:
"Gandalf, Elrond, and Aragorn have all insisted that their followers undertake dangerous missions only of their own free will. They will not compel anyone. By contrast, Sauron and Saruman corrupt, break, or distort the free will of their followers.

Evaluate the importance of free will as a defining characteristic of free people. Use specific examples from the story to illustrate each point you make."

I would appreciate any help that you could give: but what I am looking for, mainly, is direct instances within the Return of the King. Thank you for your help and I can't wait to discuss your responses!

Interesting questions. That made me think of the why Saurons allies were his allies in the first place, and why they chose to commit so heavily. Is it because Sauron forced them? Or do beings that commit evil in Lord of the Rings have little or no free will?

Why and when do men rebel? Are the decisions made through a free will, and if so, on what basis? Do you go to arms on the basis of a need (i.e. the need to protect yourself, your family, your ideology?), on the basis of greed (i.e. is there some economic gain to be drawn from becoming a rebel, or an insurgent, a warrior?) or is based on grievance (you feel an injustice, an inequality, inferiority)?

Perhaps Sauron didn't force all of his 'allies'. Perhaps he instead made them aware of an opportunity that allowed for a decent situation as to account for their needs, greeds and grievances. Rationally, and on the basis of a free will.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

Interesting questions. That made me think of the why Saurons allies were his allies in the first place, and why they chose to commit so heavily. Is it because Sauron forced them? Or do beings that commit evil in Lord of the Rings have little or no free will?

Why and when do men rebel? Are the decisions made through a free will, and if so, on what basis? Do you go to arms on the basis of a need (i.e. the need to protect yourself, your family, your ideology?), on the basis of greed (i.e. is there some economic gain to be drawn from becoming a rebel, or an insurgent, a warrior?) or is based on grievance (you feel an injustice, an inequality, inferiority)?

Perhaps Sauron didn't force all of his 'allies'. Perhaps he instead made them aware of an opportunity that allowed for a decent situation as to account for their needs, greeds and grievances. Rationally, and on the basis of a free will.

I think that certainly applies to his (and Saruman's) human allies- historical enmity, reversal of past defeats, greed for conquest, all stirred up by a powerful neighbor who promises a strong alliance while at the same time "making you an offer you can't refuse."

Even the orcs of Moria weren't under Sauron's control- the ones who helped capture Pippin and Merry were motivated by revenge, and were quite willing to defy both Sauron's and Saruman's agents.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse
That made me think of the why Saurons allies were his allies in the first place, and why they chose to commit so heavily.

The reason is not too difficult to figure, just look at the LOTR's Appendix A.
Of course there was a free will among Sauron's followers. They were choosing between the lesser of two evils. For them the memories of what had happened to lands and domains bordering with Gondor when this realm was high and mighty, probably, did not fade away with time.
..."Gondor reached the summit of its power. The realm then extended north to Celebrant and the south eaves of Mirkwood;west to the Greyflood;east to the inland Sea of Rhun; south to the river Harnen, and hence along the coast to the peninsula and haven of Umbar." Gondor's appetite grew, as grew its expansion and plundering of seized territories. Therefore the wealth and power of Gondor reached to such proportions, when «precious stones are pebbles in Gondor for children to play with.“ Gondor did not share its wealth even with poor and striving compatriots from Arnor, not to mention men with lesser than numenorian blood. And its vassals were keept in a tight fist "...the kings of the Harad did homage to Gondor, and their sons lived as hostages in the court its Kings..." , thus eliminating any attempts of uncooperation from the defeated rulers .
Gondoreans "won much territory eastwards" droving the "wild men" and Easterlings (later all of them united together as Wainriders) out of their native territories, which they were ceaselessly striving to regain. Wild-men and Druedain was not evil, but they were hunted "like beasts ". Orcs were always fighting to the end, because they knew none of them will be spared by do-gooders Elves and Dunedain, Gandalf and Co, ironically by anyone who supposedly was serving good.
Who would feel much love toward someone who was looking at you as a lesser human and at every opportunity is trying to oppress you?
Sauron did not distort the free will of his allies. He just took them under his protection.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Even the orcs of Moria weren't under Sauron's control- the ones who helped capture Pippin and Merry were motivated by revenge, and were quite willing to defy both Sauron's and Saruman's agents.

Originally Posted by Olmer

Orcs were always fighting to the end, because they knew none of them will be spared by do-gooders Elves and Dunedain, Gandalf and Co, ironically by anyone who supposedly was serving good.

Sauron did not distort the free will of his allies. He just took them under his protection.

Interesting on the orcs. The orcs seem, at least as conveyed through the eyes of the Hobbits et al. (I'm thinking here of Bilbo and Frodo authoring the Red Book of Westmarch that serves as a source for the Lord of the Rings), somewhat misunderstood and misrepresented (perhaps even intentionally?).

No doubt the average orc assumes the worst and crudest characterizations of any creature in ME, but perhaps they can be forgiven for being pscyhological and societal junk-grade after persistent abuse, perscecution and enslavement.

If they do act with a free will, addressing personal and collective grievances instead of following orders from Orthanc or Barad-Dur, it is a testimony to the 'weakness' of the forces that purportedly should have molded and delegated them to bottomless enslavement.

[Logkhya]

That's useful topic, get to know more details now