Why did the Fellowship stay so long in Rivendell?

[CrazySquirrel]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

According to Haldir, a great troop of orcs came to Moria. Did Haldir state they came from Sauron or from Dol Guldur or from the force that one of the Nazgul had opposite Rohan? No? Then claiming that Sauron did in fact send them is imposing your own opinion on the text isn't it? Does Haldir tell us that they came from Saruman? No? Thought not. Does Haldir tell us where the orcs have originated from? No? You mean they could have come from elsewhere than Sauron? HMMM, the mind boggles at this gap. (that was a tiny sneer, yes). I will further point out that EVEN IF the great troop of orcs was from Sauron, it doesn't follow that a) Sauron had not been sending such troops there for some time in preparation for his assaults on Lorien and b) that it was in any way related to the Fellowship--do remember that it was suggested that the delay of the company allowed such reinforcements to happen. There is no indication in what Tolkien actually wrote that the two events are in any way connected. And as I pointed out, there were already orcs and a balrog there, I doubt that this new troop changed the outcome of the Fellowship's journey through Moria in any way.

Don't let your mind boggle, you can find the connections if you look for them in the books.

Firstly Haldir said the orcs came from the South: that means, either from Mordor, or Isengard, or even from Dol Guldur, if they crossed the River at the field of Celebrant. OK? Or you think they were from Minas Tirith?

Secondly, they were either Sauron's or Saruman's. Gandalf described the ones near the Chamber of Mazarbul as "black uruks of Mordor"

'There are Orcs, very many of them,' he said. `And some are large and evil: black Uruks of Mordor. For the moment they are hanging back, but there is something else there. A great cave-troll, I think, or more than one. There is no hope of escape that way.'

Aragorn didn't gainsay it. He saw the Isengardians for the first time later, at Path Galen. The difference was discussed at this point; it was considerable. And Gandalf spent more than a month on the roof of Orthank: shouldn't he know how the Izengardians look?

So my conclusion: they were from Mordor.

Olmer, if you state they were from Isengard, could you provide a quote, please?


Now did the new troop change the balance of forces in Moria? And were they sent there in relation with the Fellowship?

UT: The hunt for the ring
What then happened to Gollum cannot of course be known for certain. He was peculiarly fitted to survive in such straits, though at cost of great misery; but he was in great peril of discovery by the servants of Sauron that lurked in Moria, (11) especially since such bare necessity of food as he must have he could only get by thieving dangerously. No doubt he had intended to use Moria simply as a secret passage westward,

(11) These were in fact not very numerous, it would seem; but sufficient to keep any intruders out, if not better armed or prepared than Balin's company, and not in great numbers. [Author's note.]

The passage above tells us of the situation in Moria in summer 3018. "NOT very numerous". It doesn't sound like a "great troop of orcs", does it?

So between the summer and the winter 3018, the Moria garrison was noticeably reinforced. It might be either connected with Gollum, or with the news of the Ring Quest. Considering the fact that the attacking orc in the Mazarbul fight went directly and unerringly for Frodo, I believe the latter.

And then: Elladan and Elrohir were in Lorien, in late October-November 3018. Why didn't they bring back the news of the great troop of orcs coming to Moria? Because they didn't. Gandalf has no idea of the situation in Moria:

If there are Orcs there, it may prove ill for us, that is true. But most of the Orcs of the Misty Mountains were scattered or destroyed in the Battle of Five Armies. The Eagles report that Orcs are gathering again from afar; but there is a hope that Moria is still free.-LOTR

So, I believe, either Galadriel decided to keep the news to herself - did she, Olmer?, or the orc host came AFTER Elladan and Elrohir left Moria.- in late November. Then the chance that its arrival is connected with the nazgul report about the Fellowship increases.

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

Do recall though that the Ettenmoors once formed a part of the kingdom of Angmar, did the WK (I call him Marvin) return north rather than go to Mordor after being unhorsed, and there have a troop or more at his beck and call ready to come down on Rivendell? How do you know unless you go look?

As Olmer has quite correctly pointed out, the lands of the Ettenmoors were almost empty by TA 3018.

Apart from that, recall that the Witch-King had previously laid siege to Rivendell (1409) and, although he had all the army of Angmar with him, still he failed to take it. You think by 3018 he had developed a severe nazgul amnesia? Could he hope to assail Rivendell with a troop of vagabonds collected in Ettenmoors?,

Here is my "modicum of silliness"