Gandalf - a manipulator?

[Olmer]

This thread came from LOTR discussion, but I think it would be quite interesting to hear your opinion on this matter.
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Originally posted by brownjenkins
it's an understandable, and probably even wise manipulation... but it is manipulation none the less... much like gandalf's manipulation to have thorin include bilbo among the party to the loney mountain years earlier... well-intentioned, but slightly underhanded
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Slightly underhanded?!!
He IS a manipulator of extra-class, and he will try every possible way , if using Artanis words, to "make their own wills effective by any means". He manipulated Thorin and dwarves, Bilbo, Frodo, and , unsuccessfully, Aragorn and Denethor.
Just to back up your words on Thorin business...
The dwarves would go quite fine without Bilbo, it's Gandalf, who persuaded them that it's essential to include the Hobbit. About his true reason for it we could talk later, if somebody will be interested. Now I want to make my point how Bilbo was coaxed to join the Dwarves group.
It’s very interesting to follow all Gandalf’s moves, see how he went out of the limbs to make it possible, using trickery and magic, coaxing and intimidation.


Right from the start Gandalf was using a very well known and quite effective psychological trick of persuasion: make it look like the whole idea itself actually came from the person you want to convince:
"....I will give you what you asked for." ---"I beg you pardon, I haven't asked for anything!" ---- "Yes, you have! Twice now!...I give it you"...

Then, not bothering about an immaculate Bilbo's reputation, without his knowledge, Gandalf put the mark on his door, which was labeling Bilbo as a professional burglar, living it up to him to deal with consequences:
"...with the spike of his staff scratched a queer sign on the hobbit's beautiful green front door..."
Then, just the same way in the secret he erased the mark from the door, leaving an ingenious hobbit to wonder :what brought the host of dwarves specifically to his own door, till Gloin told him:"...And I assure you there IS a mark on this door --the usual one in the TRADE(!??): BURGLAR WANTS A GOOD JOB"...
An this is no other than set up intimidation! I did not mention the open influence of Gandalf's dominating abilities:"...when Bilbo tried to open his mouth to ask a question, he turned and frowned at him , and stuck out his bushy eyebrows till Bilbo shut his mouth tight with snap."

Then Bilbo became a subject of a banal hypnotic alteration, "...Bilbo forgot everything else, and was swept away into dark lands under strange moons"... And under this influence"..something Tookish woke up inside him"...
But next day , when his "...Tookishness was wearing off".. Gandalf had to use stronger "modification", which turned Bilbo into zombie-like person without memory or sensible control on his actions:" To the end of his days Bilbo could never remember how he found himself outside"...