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Old 11-01-2003, 11:35 PM   #1
Maedhros
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
Lost in Time?

From The Hobbit: Flies and Spiders
Quote:
So to the cave they dragged Thorin-not too gently, for they did not love dwarves, and thought he was an enemy. In ancient days they had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bar- gained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay. If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more, since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf-lords of old.
Hmmmm, it is interesting. This is of course a reference to the dwarves of Nogrod and the Elves of Menegroth. If one reads Of the Ruin of Doriath, PS, one notices that indeed there was a quarrel between the dwarves and Thingol because of the NauglamĂ*r (and the Silmaril), but there is no mention anywhere about the raw gold and silver that they were working for.
The answer of course can be found in the Book of Lost Tales II: The Tale of the Nauglafring, in which HĂşrin (kind of) brings the treasure of Nargothrond to Doriath (Artanor) and because Thingol (Tinwelint) is a poor woodland Elf King, he uses the dwarves as the smiths of this treasure. The chapter Of the Ruin of Doriath, has been edited heavily by CT based on several ideas as how to resolve certain problems, such as where Thingol died, and how.

My question to you is this: Do you think that being The Hobbit a published book by JRRT, that CT should have taken the working of the gold and silver by the dwarves and included it in his version of the Silmarillion?
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.”
As an adjective American is:
1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
As a noun American is:
A native or inhabitant of America.
A citizen of the United States.

Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again:
1. The United States.
2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America.

Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?”
The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.”
The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.
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