The Hobbit and the deeper mythology

***azalea*** · 07-11-2003, 02:43 PM

Okay, I promise not to overdo it with new threads, but since I'm reading it I thought it would be nice to start a discussion thread here.

I have noticed a few things that either connect with the deeper mythology of ME OR that seem to disagree. Of course I realize The Hobbit was written with a different purpose in mind and for a different audience, but I thought it would be interesting to point out some of them here. This is the first time I've read The Hobbit since finishing The Silmarillion, so it gives me a different perspective.

1) The story mentions dwarves passing through the Shire, which is something we don't see in LotR that I remember (I mean dwarves besides the Company), although it does mention elves.

There is a line "Then they came to lands where people spoke strangely, and sang songs Bilbo had never heard before." I guess this is Bree? Then it describes them going in the "Lone-lands," and mentions many hills, on some of which are old castles with an evil look. I guess the reason we don't see these in LotR is because they are not travelling on the road, whereas in The Hobbit they are. We know they are following a similar route because in LotR they end up at the stone trolls at one point. But what would the castles be? Is there anything in The Silmarillion that would connect with castles in this location? I'm so bad with geography, I don't know.

2)Gandalf struggles a little to lead the dwarves on the path that leads to Rivendell (not much, but it describes him having to look very carefully for the white stones that mark the way). I find this interesting, because in LotR there is no mention of how difficult it is to find Rivendell (we don't see Gandalf's arrival, the horse takes Frodo there, and Glorfindel and Aragorn lead the other hobbits). But it makes sense obviously.

3)Bilbo says "it smells like elves."

I wonder what they smell like! There is a whole thread about how different the elves in The Hobbit are from those in LotR. But there is one thing: Bilbo finds it intriguing that the elves know his name, which could have come through Gandalf, but also the one says "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!" Which leads me to believe that actually the Rivendell elves have seen him in the Shire and knew who he was before, and so thought it funny that he was riding on a pony, knowing him. So I guess they would visit the Shire without being seen by its inhabitants, and I think this is alluded to in LotR.

4)We get mention of Durin and Gondolin when Elrond is looking at the swords and map.

I always found it strange that Gandalf does not identify the swords as being made by elves, but I suppose it fits his personality of not making a statement about something unless he is sure about it (as in, maybe he thought they could have been made by men or dwarves OR elves, so he just withholds judgement about them).

5) Stone giants are mentioned in Over Hill and Under Hill, and Gandalf mentions that he'll try to find a friendly giant later in the book. But I don't think giants are mentioned in the other books, only trolls.

I'm sure I'll find more things as I continue to read. Does anyone else remember anything like this, that either connects or disagrees with stuff later published about ME?
If not now, maybe you'll see something when you read it again and can add something.

07-11-2003, 02:43 PM	#1
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	The Hobbit and the deeper mythology Okay, I promise not to overdo it with new threads, but since I'm reading it I thought it would be nice to start a discussion thread here. I have noticed a few things that either connect with the deeper mythology of ME OR that seem to disagree. Of course I realize The Hobbit was written with a different purpose in mind and for a different audience, but I thought it would be interesting to point out some of them here. This is the first time I've read The Hobbit since finishing The Silmarillion, so it gives me a different perspective. 1) The story mentions dwarves passing through the Shire, which is something we don't see in LotR that I remember (I mean dwarves besides the Company), although it does mention elves. There is a line "Then they came to lands where people spoke strangely, and sang songs Bilbo had never heard before." I guess this is Bree? Then it describes them going in the "Lone-lands," and mentions many hills, on some of which are old castles with an evil look. I guess the reason we don't see these in LotR is because they are not travelling on the road, whereas in The Hobbit they are. We know they are following a similar route because in LotR they end up at the stone trolls at one point. But what would the castles be? Is there anything in The Silmarillion that would connect with castles in this location? I'm so bad with geography, I don't know. 2)Gandalf struggles a little to lead the dwarves on the path that leads to Rivendell (not much, but it describes him having to look very carefully for the white stones that mark the way). I find this interesting, because in LotR there is no mention of how difficult it is to find Rivendell (we don't see Gandalf's arrival, the horse takes Frodo there, and Glorfindel and Aragorn lead the other hobbits). But it makes sense obviously. 3)Bilbo says "it smells like elves." I wonder what they smell like! There is a whole thread about how different the elves in The Hobbit are from those in LotR. But there is one thing: Bilbo finds it intriguing that the elves know his name, which could have come through Gandalf, but also the one says "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!" Which leads me to believe that actually the Rivendell elves have seen him in the Shire and knew who he was before, and so thought it funny that he was riding on a pony, knowing him. So I guess they would visit the Shire without being seen by its inhabitants, and I think this is alluded to in LotR. 4)We get mention of Durin and Gondolin when Elrond is looking at the swords and map. I always found it strange that Gandalf does not identify the swords as being made by elves, but I suppose it fits his personality of not making a statement about something unless he is sure about it (as in, maybe he thought they could have been made by men or dwarves OR elves, so he just withholds judgement about them). 5) Stone giants are mentioned in Over Hill and Under Hill, and Gandalf mentions that he'll try to find a friendly giant later in the book. But I don't think giants are mentioned in the other books, only trolls. I'm sure I'll find more things as I continue to read. Does anyone else remember anything like this, that either connects or disagrees with stuff later published about ME? If not now, maybe you'll see something when you read it again and can add something.