How were Gandalf and Frodo going to enter Mordor?

If Gandalf hadn't fallen to the Balrog in Moria and the Quest had gone as planned, what was his method for getting into Mordor? Did he even have a plan? Would he go through Cirith Ungol and hope Shelob wasn't noticing?

I think Gandalf didn't know what he was going to do, he was probably making it up as he went along.

I don't know about making things up, but I agree Gandalf probably had not planned anything for sure beyond Lothlórien. I can't imagine what way they could have taken though.

I have a suspicion the River Poros when it met the Shadowy Mountains plunged underneath and entered some sort of a cave. But even it had led to the other side, that's much too far south.

I bet Gandalf would have made quick work of Shelob. He took out that balrog. Shelob wouldn't have stood a chance. (Gandalf probably has held a grudge against giant spiders since the Ungliant/Melkor/Two Trees incident)

How about the eagles... they seemed to get to Mount Doom quick enough when it was rescue time...

They eagles wouldnt have make it with the "increasing" weight of the ring when nearing Mount Doom.

I agree with Wizard, he probably would have taken Cirith Ungol and blew away Shelob. But he definitely wouldn't have had the whole thing planned. He would have had to consider all situations that could affect their succession.

I don't think so.

Gandalf is smarter than that. He knows that you can't plan everything from the start. You have to adjust to the unpredictable flow of time. No one can't accuratly state what everything will be. Altought he must had have a preference for a particular path.

I doubt he would have chosen Cirith Ungol, given his reaction when Faramir told them that piece of news, but who knows.

Er, you know, he died slaying the Balrog. I don't think he would have made quick work of her. Gandalf The White probably could have made her run away and hide much sooner than Sam Gamgee, but I don't think he could have had her writhing on the floor with a snap of his fingers.

Eagles wouldn't work either. Besides the inconvenience of Nine Walkers flying to Mordor, it's supposed to be a secret journey. Put your Nine Walkers the Eye are looking for in Eagles' talons, and their goners for sure. There's all sorts of things that could go wrong. I'm not even sure they'd get pass the Woodmen in Mirkwood. Don't like sheep-killers, they don't.

I mean really, Aragorn and Gandalf weren't even willing to walk on the other side of the mountains because it was so infested with spies and more dangerous enemies. Flying is worse.

Gandalf wouldn't have fight Shelob

She's too near Sauron and he would have feal it and then send his nine to recover the ring

If Sam could beat Shelob I'm quite confident that the Fellowship could have done it (either that or you'd see Gandalf holding a grudge "That was for the Two Trees!").

That was a good point about Sauron being more likely to notice them if Gandalf made it that close. This is implied in "The Ring Goes South".

You know in response to my own comment about Gandalf The White, I don't think Shelob could have ever met him. She might have met Gandalf The Grey. The only way Gandalf would have led any part of the Fellowship into Mordor would be if all nine companions were still alive. If they had got through the horror of Moria, Gandalf with them. Then things would be more interesting between Gandalf and Shelob, assuming (which I doubt) that they would have taken the Pass of the Spider. But the Quest probably would have failed if Gandalf hadn't sacrificed himself. As much can be deduced from a couple of Tolkien's letters. The Wizards needed a boost.

I don't know that Sauron could sense Gandalf more than Frodo. Could you quote the passage Finduilas?

They could take the M1 north. :lol:

Hmmm, I guess bmilder already said that, didn't he? He was talking about Gandalf The Grey. I should pay more attention.

pott of p*ss, without doubt he could have beaten her easily, even though he was cloaked in grey the ease in which he could have killed shelob and quiestly is unquestionable. he did posses a ring of power, so i believe grey or white he would have whipped her!

Narya didn't give its user any special bonuses in combat, except to strengthen quaking heart. The Ring of Fire kindled hope in those hearts of people who needed it, so that they could put aside the imaginations of darkness. It enhanced that ability of his that gave him his name in his youth: Olorin. I don't believe it gave him any sort of extra power in actual flame because this is nowhere suggested, and the power of Nenya is definitely metaphoric.

One of the things I like about Tolkien's powerful heroes is that they aren't invincible. Gandalf can't just blast a bunch of lightning from his fingertips when he feels like it to get rid of the bad guys. He can't just take a trip through Mirkwood and blast spiders out of his path, laughing all the way. Indeed, he and Bilbo were very reluctant to enter it at all on their returning journey, because of its peril.

Similarly, Tolkien's powerful evil creatures are rather sophisticated, and interesting. Shelob isn't just some big scary monster that will devour an army should it dare her lair. I don't doubt that if you send a large army through Cirith Ungol, she'd much sooner hide than attack. So If Gandalf, Sam and Frodo were walking through the dark in that pass (which would be very unlikely), I don't doubt Shelob would have a mind to sneak up on them, but flee if she knows she's bit off more than she could chew. Gandalf The Grey would have a time battling and it would be a battle. He would in his dire need reveal some of his inner power, and there would be much fire and light, but it would be a battle.

Gandalf would undoubtedly win, assuming Shelob didn't surprise him sooner than she did Sam and Frodo, and assuming before the battle began Gandalf was in good health. But I can't imagine him destroying her with ease and without fear, it just doesn't fit.

when he is fighting the balrog he says:

'you cannot pass, i am wielding the secret flame of ..... [forget the name of it, damn!] you cannot pass'
is this secret flame to do with the ring? and also if he wields the flame against shelob she would most probably die...


and we must not forget if he hadn't have fallen he would have escaped unharmed whilst breaking the balrogs sword, being mightier than a balrog AND therefore shelob - suggesting to me the grey gandalf would have made mincemeat out of her....

Why do you say on ground of Gandalf defeating the Balrog that he would be mightier than Shelob?