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08-17-2002, 04:01 AM | #1 |
Hoplite Nomad
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If Feanor hadn't died what would have happned when Fingolfin's Hosts arrvived in ME?
If Feanor hadn't died what would have happned when Fingolfin's Hosts arrvived in ME?
Your thoughts on this?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
09-07-2002, 05:23 PM | #2 |
Enting
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I think It might have been intersting if Morgoth had captured Feanor Himself instead of Maedhros and Fingon or someone with Thorondor rescued him instead. I hvae a hunch however that it would have led to immidate and greater strife than there was.
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09-07-2002, 08:07 PM | #3 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Possibly another kinslaying.
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09-08-2002, 02:57 AM | #4 |
Elf Lord
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I'd like to think at least some of Feanor's Host would have defied their leader and repented of the burning of the ships, despite the ill-intent of Curufinwe. Maybe Feanor would have even quarreled with his own sons over it (or some of them). That would have been interesting.
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09-08-2002, 06:44 AM | #5 |
Elf Lord
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Taking in consideration the mental state of Feanor at that time, anything could happen.
But I doubt he would have convinced all of his people, and indeed even all of his sons, to attack Fingolfin’s host. However what would have Fingolfin done if Feanor was still alive and in control when he reached Hithlum? He might have confronted him personally, and I don’t doubt Feanor would have answered with steel. Fingolfin would probably won but no doubt war would irrupt among the Noldor afterwards . On the other hand if Feanor were captured and Fingolfin saved him, things would be less certain. It would probably reconcile the brothers, but I doubt that he would recognise Fingolfin as high king of the Noldor, as Maedhros did. Probably he would simply ignore the claim of his brother and would not press his own, at least for a time.
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09-08-2002, 07:25 AM | #6 |
the Shrike
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He would have appeared in Jerry Springer's "I want to kill my brother and have sex with his wife!" show.
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09-14-2002, 10:53 PM | #7 |
Enting
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Feanor's emnity toward Fingolfin was limited compared to his lust for both the silmarils, and the enemy that stole them. Feanor would probably have seen that he needed allies to defeat the Morgoth and recover his prize creations, thus i think some reconciliation between them would have been likely, certainly a true Kinslaying seems highly unlikely, considering the only cause for the slaying at alqualonde was feanor's desire for the silmarills which the telerin ships would have served to facilitate. Fingolfin's host had nothing to aid feanor in such a quest, other than their valour in battle.
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09-15-2002, 06:22 PM | #8 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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09-17-2002, 02:22 AM | #9 |
Enting
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The question is a hypothetical one, what WOULD have happened IF Feanor had been alive when the greater part of the Noldor under Fingolfin arrived in Middle Earth. Feanor did leave behind the part of the Noldor that followed the second son of Finwe rather than the eldest son and heir to the kingship of the Noldor in Araman. But he did not leave them to "perish." Indeed how would they? They had a choice, return or brave the ice, they chose the dangerous rode and suffered - some few perished but it was the choice of Fingolfin not to return and seek the pardon of the valar. Feanor clearly considered Fingolfin's host to be traitors - and technically they were not following the rightful king of the Noldor. And as for feanor caring nothing for the Noldor i see little evidence, he was a flawed character, but no enemy of his people. I merely stated that in the true spirit of realpolitik feanor would have avoided conflict with Fingolfin's host who CERTAINLY held Morgoth to the be enemy, not the feanorians. The chance of a kinslaying is virtually nil. Consider the three slayings of elf by elf. All were perpetrated by the feanorians for the acquisition of the silmarils, the first for the ships to reach the enemy who held the silmarils, the second and third to reaquire the gems from the elves that held them. Did Fingolfin have the gems? Did his defeat lead feanor any closer to reaching them? No and No.
Last edited by Curufinwe : 09-17-2002 at 02:55 PM. |
03-03-2003, 01:10 AM | #10 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-03-2003, 01:18 AM | #11 |
the Shrike
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I think I may have been drunk when I wrote that.
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03-03-2003, 09:10 PM | #12 |
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It was a most dreadful deed that Feanor left Fingolfin's host on the shores after the Kinslaying at Alaqualonde. But I agree that Fingolfin was safe from the swords of Feanor and his sons. Even though Feanor never felt that the sons of Indis were truely his brothers (or so I feel when I read this story) and did not approve of his father marrying her, I do not think he was stupid. Rash and hot headed, yes, but stupid no. He would have used Fingolfin's host as allies against his true enemy. Perhaps, even repenting for leaving them on the shores while Feanor and his sons took the ships. If not with his full heart, perhaps for the purpose of obtaining Fingolfin's help.
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03-04-2003, 04:11 PM | #13 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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I agree that Fëanor wouldn't have slain his half-brothers (or mae an attempt). Sure, he was very proud, but the help Fingolfin and his host would have provided in the war against Morgoth would (IMHO) have convinced him to make an alliance, at leats for a while...
If he was alive today he would probably participated in JS-show, but in a program called "My mother left me, my father married another woman and was later killed, my new brothers are all bastards and Mandos doesn't like me!"
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03-04-2003, 06:49 PM | #14 | |
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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03-04-2003, 07:33 PM | #15 | |
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03-05-2003, 11:13 AM | #16 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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It's in HoME 12, The Peoples of Middle Earth.
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03-05-2003, 11:31 AM | #17 | |
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03-26-2003, 11:46 PM | #18 |
Sapling
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I'm guessing since Fingolfin was very temperate to Feanor before he would probaly forgive his half brother and Feanor, needing allies would grudingly allow him to join the war against Morgoth.
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03-27-2003, 05:34 AM | #19 |
Elven Warrior
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Maybe the ACCIDENTAL burning of Amras in the ships would've humbled Feanor.
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04-10-2003, 10:30 PM | #20 |
Alasailon
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It woulda hve been nice just to see Feanor live and actually have a real (fair) fight. But all in all Maedhros was the better leader between him and his father, so in any case Feanor's death was probably for the best.
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