The ring took a huge risk

The Wizard from Milan · 12-25-2005, 12:57 AM

I was thinking about the ring's decision to betray Isildur right in the river.
The ring took a huge risk that it might be lost forever. I wonder how much the ring can forsee the future. And I wonder how much the ring is rational in its decisions given the information the ring has (and therefore the risks that the ring must take)

Lotesse · 12-25-2005, 01:05 AM

What I've always wondered is exactly howe MUCH that omnipotent-seeming mega-ring actually KNEW at all. This Ring - it could talk, it could persuade people like a devil whispering on the shoulder, it could decide when to get big & slip off ringers and when to stay fitted and stay on hands, it had so much of Sauron's spirit in it - I wonder, what ABOUT this know-it-all Ring? Maybe someone gave Sauron some futuristic prediction that the Anduin would be a safe haven to chill at for a good long while, while Mr. S. got his ducks in a row to do his whole "I will take over the WORLD" shpiel. I thionk that the Ring onluy knows as much as Sauron knows; it's like an outcropping of his own personal knowledge & mentality. That's what I think.

Buon Natale, by the way, Wizard From Milan!!!

***Earniel*** · 12-25-2005, 06:16 AM

Supposing (which I do) the Ring had some sort of will of its own I don't think it ran the risk of being lost forever. As I believe something similar was said on the Council of Elrond, this sort of things cannot remain hidden or lost forever.

Although possibly it thought any place, even spending a few centuries on the muddy bottom of a stream, was better than being on his enemy's hand. In the Gladden Fields it had the only opportunity to slip away from Isildur without the latter having time to look for it, which he would surely have done otherwise. And with all the orcs around it had the best opportunity ever to get back to his own side. It didn't happen, but it was its best shot.

A thought just occured to me -if Sauron didn't know that the Ring had not been destroyed after his defeat in the war- could the Ring have known Sauron had survived as well? Or would it have thought it would have to look for a new master?

durinsbane2244 · 12-25-2005, 08:35 PM

i think the ring new that it had to get away from isildur for starters...

brownjenkins · 12-27-2005, 10:41 AM

i think it's greatest fear would have been destruction, so it makes sense for it to have taken a move that made it hidden for a time

imagine if isildur had survived... he obviously would have been completely corrupted eventually and the elves of the early third age might have even eventually gone to war against him to capture and destroy the ring... if i remember right, he was headed back to arnor and it is doubtful elrond and cirdan would have put up with a ring-corrupted neighbor for that long

durinsbane2244 · 12-27-2005, 08:40 PM

indeed

Curubethion · 12-27-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eärniel

A thought just occured to me -if Sauron didn't know that the Ring had not been destroyed after his defeat in the war- could the Ring have known Sauron had survived as well? Or would it have thought it would have to look for a new master?

I think the only way to destroy Sauron was the destruction of the ring.

The Witch-King of Angmar · 12-28-2005, 03:49 AM

Maybe the ring was hoping to be swept down the Anduin to Osgiliath, if it made its way to the capital of Gondor, it would be really easy to corrupt enough men to get back to Sauron eventually.

durinsbane2244 · 12-28-2005, 07:18 PM

oooh, clever...

12-25-2005, 12:57 AM	#1
The Wizard from Milan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 421	The ring took a huge risk I was thinking about the ring's decision to betray Isildur right in the river. The ring took a huge risk that it might be lost forever. I wonder how much the ring can forsee the future. And I wonder how much the ring is rational in its decisions given the information the ring has (and therefore the risks that the ring must take)

12-25-2005, 01:05 AM	#2
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	What I've always wondered is exactly howe MUCH that omnipotent-seeming mega-ring actually KNEW at all. This Ring - it could talk, it could persuade people like a devil whispering on the shoulder, it could decide when to get big & slip off ringers and when to stay fitted and stay on hands, it had so much of Sauron's spirit in it - I wonder, what ABOUT this know-it-all Ring? Maybe someone gave Sauron some futuristic prediction that the Anduin would be a safe haven to chill at for a good long while, while Mr. S. got his ducks in a row to do his whole "I will take over the WORLD" shpiel. I thionk that the Ring onluy knows as much as Sauron knows; it's like an outcropping of his own personal knowledge & mentality. That's what I think. Buon Natale, by the way, Wizard From Milan!!! __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

12-25-2005, 06:16 AM	#3
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Supposing (which I do) the Ring had some sort of will of its own I don't think it ran the risk of being lost forever. As I believe something similar was said on the Council of Elrond, this sort of things cannot remain hidden or lost forever. Although possibly it thought any place, even spending a few centuries on the muddy bottom of a stream, was better than being on his enemy's hand. In the Gladden Fields it had the only opportunity to slip away from Isildur without the latter having time to look for it, which he would surely have done otherwise. And with all the orcs around it had the best opportunity ever to get back to his own side. It didn't happen, but it was its best shot. A thought just occured to me -if Sauron didn't know that the Ring had not been destroyed after his defeat in the war- could the Ring have known Sauron had survived as well? Or would it have thought it would have to look for a new master? __________________ We are not things.

12-25-2005, 08:35 PM	#4
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	i think the ring new that it had to get away from isildur for starters... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

12-27-2005, 10:41 AM	#5
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	i think it's greatest fear would have been destruction, so it makes sense for it to have taken a move that made it hidden for a time imagine if isildur had survived... he obviously would have been completely corrupted eventually and the elves of the early third age might have even eventually gone to war against him to capture and destroy the ring... if i remember right, he was headed back to arnor and it is doubtful elrond and cirdan would have put up with a ring-corrupted neighbor for that long __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

12-27-2005, 08:40 PM	#6
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	indeed __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

12-28-2005, 03:49 AM	#8
The Witch-King of Angmar Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 143	Maybe the ring was hoping to be swept down the Anduin to Osgiliath, if it made its way to the capital of Gondor, it would be really easy to corrupt enough men to get back to Sauron eventually. __________________ *"Do not come between the Nazgûl and his prey"* I'm an Xbox Guy! Xbox Guys

12-28-2005, 07:18 PM	#9
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	oooh, clever... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

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