Why you believe what you believe I

[Rían]

OK, the candy sale madness at the kids' school is dying down, and my mind is free to turn to more philosophical subjects than how many cases of candy so-and-so sold, and did she qualify for the big barbeque or not, and things of that ilk, so I am finally starting the thread that I've thought about starting for a long time, and kind of half-started in other threads - the Why you believe what you believe thread.

If anyone's interested, let's go at it! If not, then it will die a quiet death at the bottom of the GMs, because unlike Gandalf, I don't like talking to myself!

SO - what I was thinking of was that different people can take turns in the "hot seat" and field questions from others on their general worldview beliefs, and their reasons behind holding those beliefs, and what sub-beliefs can be derived from their worldview beliefs, and so on. I'd like this to be really vigorous, no-holds-barred discussion, but polite and considerate. We've tackled some hot issues before in this manner, so it can be done! ANY question is valid, as long as it's framed in a considerate way.

Mainly what I'm thinking about are what I would call, I guess, "top-level" worldview beliefs, which would be things like Christianity, Buddhism (I'm hoping to lure Ñólendil here ), atheism, agnosticism, and things like that, because from what I can tell, our beliefs on most issues are based on what worldview belief we hold. So I would like to discuss why people hold these top-level worldview beliefs.

Anyone interested? I'll volunteer to go first, if no one else wants to. I never am bothered by sincere questions, and I'll tackle any question anyone wants to throw at me, and give it an honest answer (and BTW, "I don't know" is certainly a valid answer, if it's true). And I'm hoping others will do the same. (Altho I would also like to say that people are free to just ask questions and not answer them if they don't want to, but I'm hoping for lots of volunteers to sit in the hot seat).

EDIT - one more note - I do NOT want this to be some silly debate - I hate the idea of debate for the sake of debating! I would like this to be a really open, truthful discussion, with the intent of finding things out and exploring thoughts and ideas and being willing to be totally openminded and honest and have your own worldview challenged and examined by others and being able to explain your own worldview. That's how I'm gonna handle it, and I hope everyone else will, too

[Lizra]

Heh! I'll go first! I am an atheist. I believe there is no afterlife. No god being. When we die, our energy is recycled just like plants on the compost pile. How we (or anything) came to be...I (very unfortunately ) don't know...but but I believe eons of time, space, and seemingly infinite reactions of all sorts have given rise to much that is.

[Rían]

Are you willing to take questions from us, Lizra?

[EarthBound]

QUOTE=Lizra]Heh! I'll go first! I am an atheist. I believe there is no afterlife. No god being. When we die, our energy is recycled just like plants on the compost pile. [/QUOTE]

Salute to the first brave soul (Lizra), who staunchly strides into the fray . . .

Hey Lizra, glad you posted. You answered the "what" concerning what you believe. Now, for the fun part, but "why"?


QUOTE=Lizra]How we (or anything) came to be...I (very unfortunately ) don't know...but but I believe eons of time, space, and seemingly infinite reactions of all sorts have given rise to much that is.[/QUOTE]

The universe is sooooo large, understanding any of it seems unlikely.

Oy!! You just gave me an idea for another thead!

TTFN

BTW--how do I use the quotes like everyone else, I colored the font, at least, hehe.

[Rían]

( you need to put an open bracket before the first "quote=Lizra" - you only have a close bracket.)

[BeardofPants]

What Lizra said. I swing between atheism and agnosticism, depending on my mood. Strong proponent for The Theory of Evolution, not sure about the Big Bang, but not sure what else it could have been.

[Arien the Maia]

Let's see...now that the moring sickness has subsided I feel like I can enjoy mooting again!

anywho, I am a Christian (Catholic to be specific) andI suppose I believe what I believe b/c I was brought up by my mom this way. My dad is Christian but almost the opposite of Catholic. I suppose it wasn't until I was around 17 that I really accepted it mainly b/c I went to Catholic high school and we took religion classes which helped to explain all the aspects of the Catholic faith. I think it was meant to educate and allowing kids to either accept or reject the faith on their own.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

An interesting thought and concept, Rian, I will try to explain my viewpoints in an objective manner.

I am a Buddhist, I am also vegetarian and gay, those of you who have posted with me before will know I have strong views on various aspects of life.
I am a Buddhist because I believe that it is the only faith which does bring answers (no offence to anyone intended here), I also believe that we all have certain values that, of all religions, only buddhism upholds. We each have certain norms/values etc, and it is for this reason that I can not criticise any of you for your own beliefs.I believe in re-incarnation, and nirvana, this is because I feel that if we have no way of bettering ourselves, then is there any point to existence? War is something that I am strongly against, and the needless killing of anything, people or animals, although I feel that everyone should have the choice to do as they wish, within reasonable limits, of course! For instance, I don't think we should just go about killing people, so murder would be a limit. Basically, I think that each of us believes what we believe because we feel that it brings some form of stability to our lives, or perhaps an answer or two. Even those that say they do not believe in anything must admit that they believe in life itself, and that certain things are there for a reason, Laws etc. Religion is not necessarily the sole truth, but it can, and does, provide some truths.

There you have my views, if I have offended anyone, please accept my sincerest apologies.

[Nurvingiel]

Are we still asking Lizra stuff or are we asking LCOU (aka Chrys) stuff now?

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Are we still asking Lizra stuff or are we asking LCOU (aka Chrys) stuff now?

Lizra is still the one in the seat, altho posts from others are fine, too, because it helps people know where you're coming from when you ask questions. But the main focus stays on Lizra right now, and I'd like to see some more questions come her way.

Here's a few for ya, babe! (and BTW, is the "swing" in "swing babe" referring to the dance, or something else?!)

1. What makes your heart ache, either with joy or sadness?

2. You believe that god/s don't exist. I believe that God exists. If one of us can be shown to be right, would you believe that means that the other is wrong?

3. What makes you angry?

4. As far as Christianity (my own particular worldview ) - are you attracted to it in any way, shape or form whatsoever? Does anything repel you from it, besides the fact that you don't think it's true? Regardless of whether it's true or not, would you like it to be true, or would you prefer it to NOT be true? Why?

5. Are you asleep yet? (I know my posts make you fall asleep! )

[Earniel]

So Lirza, if you don't me askin'. I have the feeling you prefer to stay with your feet firmly on the ground but haven't you ever wanted there to be something 'more' to your existance; beyond the living, dying and being recycled?

[Lizra]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Lizra is still the one in the seat, altho posts from others are fine, too, because it helps people know where you're coming from when you ask questions. But the main focus stays on Lizra right now, and I'd like to see some more questions come her way.

Here's a few for ya, babe! (and BTW, is the "swing" in "swing babe" referring to the dance, or something else?!)

1. What makes your heart ache, either with joy or sadness?

2. You believe that god/s don't exist. I believe that God exists. If one of us can be shown to be right, would you believe that means that the other is wrong?

3. What makes you angry?

4. As far as Christianity (my own particular worldview ) - are you attracted to it in any way, shape or form whatsoever? Does anything repel you from it, besides the fact that you don't think it's true? Regardless of whether it's true or not, would you like it to be true, or would you prefer it to NOT be true? Why?

5. Are you asleep yet? (I know my posts make you fall asleep! )

I'm a swinging babe, so if you want to have some swinging fun, you'd do well to swing with me. I suppose the "swing" means hip, fun, happening.....it's one of those ones where if you have to ask, I guess you don't get it.

1. I don't really have a pat answer for that Rian...heart aches just kind of sneak up on you.

2. I believe what I believe, If I am presented with compelling factual evidence that makes me change my beliefs I will. Other people's beliefs don't really enter into it.

3. Oh, the usual stuff, tailgaters and crappy drivers, bad restaurant service, rudeness, having to repeat myself over and over....

4. Chrisitianity would be nice if it were real. Life would be pretty simple if there were "rules"!

5. No, not yet, this one isn't a "sleeper"!

[firstagerules]

Okay, there are a couple of things you need to get straight when talking about this:

1. There is no physical eviedence of evolution. It is and always will be a theory.

2. This planet and all we see was created by God in 6 literal days of 24 hrs each. The Bible is very specific about this and the use of the term "day".

3. The physical eviedence we do see around us supports creation in six days and the fact that there is a God.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Wow, this thread is a great idea! Kudos to Rian for thinking it up. I'd like to sit in the hotseat for a while, but unfortunately, I won't have time. But anyhow, keep it up, Mooters!

[Elfhelm]

bj, I think you understood the question I was asking, yep. I'm not sure you answered it, though, except perhaps to say you don't know.

inked, yes, I'm saying that God is not a subject of science. It is a subject of philosophy. The methods of science are also subjects of philosophy. Both can and should be debated, and no answer should be made into dogma.

Rian, I don't think you understand how non-Christians think. For instance, I am not a Christian, though I try to follow Jesus.I do not believe I am my own God, and I do believe there are consequences for my actions. I also do not believe anyone can be entirely objective, nor is it an ideal frame of reference in my book.

There are many non-Christians who are theists, and many like myself who try to follow Jesus. I can only speak for myself in saying that I don't think Jesus wanted me to accept dogmatic statements from church leaders in lieu of fact. I believe he challenged the church leaders and their dogma beginning when he was 12 years old and for the next 20 years. I don't have any more faith in the church leaders of today than he did in his day. Now, as then, they condone acts which are obviously evil. So I tell the tree by its fruit, which is all anyone can do.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

Rian, I don't think you understand how non-Christians think. ... There are many non-Christians who are theists, and many like myself who try to follow Jesus.

I should have specified "atheists" in my statement - that would have made it more accurate. It's just that most non-Christians on the Moot are atheists, from what I can tell. I need to be more accurate in my language. Thank you for pointing out my error - I'm going to go back and edit the post.

I can only speak for myself in saying that I don't think Jesus wanted me to accept dogmatic statements from church leaders in lieu of fact.

I agree. However, people need to be careful what they consider to be "fact", IMO. Much of what is considered "fact" is really just opinion or conjecture which happens to be popular at the moment.

I believe he challenged the church leaders and their dogma beginning when he was 12 years old and for the next 20 years.

He certainly did!

I don't have any more faith in the church leaders of today than he did in his day. Now, as then, they condone acts which are obviously evil. So I tell the tree by its fruit, which is all anyone can do.

No one is perfect, and there were some church leaders that Jesus approved of. We ALL need to sincerely and boldly seek out truth and try to do what we think is right, IMO, and NOT just unthinkingly go along with opinion, whether from the church pulpit or the world pulpit.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Wow, this thread is a great idea! Kudos to Rian for thinking it up. I'd like to sit in the hotseat for a while, but unfortunately, I won't have time. But anyhow, keep it up, Mooters!

Nice to see you, Gwai! I miss you. How are things in Russia?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Nice to see you, Gwai! I miss you. How are things in Russia?

Well enough, thank you. You probably got my email about my upcoming confirmation; I'm very excited about that. Unfortunately, I sent it to most people whom I know to keep them updated, and one individual, (who believes I am not a Christian) has decided to use it to attack me about Catholicism; I am definitely not in a place where I want to argue about religion. Discussion, and civil, courteous debate are what tickle my ears; after a couple months in yahoo groups, I'm fed up with mudfests!

In other news, I'm working on my college apps; Thomas Aquinas in Southern California is still looking like my main suspect. Fire up the oven!

[brownjenkins]

grats GW good to hear!

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Well enough, thank you. You probably got my email about my upcoming confirmation; I'm very excited about that. Unfortunately, I sent it to most people whom I know to keep them updated, and one individual, (who believes I am not a Christian) has decided to use it to attack me about Catholicism; I am definitely not in a place where I want to argue about religion. Discussion, and civil, courteous debate are what tickle my ears; after a couple months in yahoo groups, I'm fed up with mudfests!

In other news, I'm working on my college apps; Thomas Aquinas in Southern California is still looking like my main suspect. Fire up the oven!

I expect you already told me about this, but if so, I forgot . Congratulations, anyway!

I see Catholicism as another branch of Christianity, one more denomination, flawed in various ways like all the rest. It is COMPLETELY possible for people to be saved who are Catholics.

I'm still non-denominational . . . I disagree with too many people to be in a denomination . I'm glad your heart's desire is at last about to be fulfilled. Your experience with God I very much hope will be enhanced still further by your entering Catholicism.