Noldorin Christianity

NelyafinweMaitimo · 09-09-2007, 03:32 AM

I doubt anyone here has heard of this. Noldorin Christianity started back in the 1980s and is the only religion based on the works of Tolkien. It actually references the Silmarillion as a "testament" and regards each story as a moral or philosophical lesson. I believe it started in Finland, and it is becoming increasingly common in other parts of Europe and the US. If anybody is interested in learning more, please let me know! I've been involved since I was 13 and would like to spread awareness.

Lotesse · 09-09-2007, 05:36 AM

Are you serious?! *sigh* That's all we need - more sub-sect christian off-shoots from fans of genius literature... Yikes. I mean - YIKES, man. Are you serious?? And if so, what is it all about? It's a Finnish thing, then? A Scandinavian subculture thing? wtf...

OldHippie · 09-09-2007, 07:00 AM

http://209.85.48.9/836/119/emo/headscratch.gif

NelyafinweMaitimo · 09-09-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Are you serious?! *sigh* That's all we need - more sub-sect christian off-shoots from fans of genius literature... Yikes. I mean - YIKES, man. Are you serious?? And if so, what is it all about? It's a Finnish thing, then? A Scandinavian subculture thing? wtf...

I may have misunderstood (we all know there is a language barrier here, I think) but do you mean to say that what others choose believe, even if it is an "off-shoot" of Christianity, is somehow an affront to Christians? I personally don't see how it would affect them. We certainly didn't mean to offend anyone by believing in this, and discrimination and prejudice against those who are different from us is certainly (and very clearly) discouraged by the text.

There are, by the way, more Noldorin Christians in the UK and North America than in Finland. While some believe the movement started here, it is most definitely not a quirk or blemish on modern Finnish culture. We do, however, regard ourselves to be more progressive and liberal than many other countries while maintaining our traditions and our culture.

(Please note that I hope not to offend anyone personally, but rather to spark an intelligent and mature debate about the impact of Tolkien's works on the modern world.)

OldHippie · 09-09-2007, 12:56 PM

Um, Tolkien's books are works of fiction brought to light to be bed time stories for his children. There's no great underlying messages in them unless you want to dig and find somthing you want to find. I think your taking this a bit to the extreme.

NelyafinweMaitimo · 09-09-2007, 01:12 PM

The Silmarillion contains very few "bedtime stories." It's not The Hobbit, by any means. The Silmarillion was a product of Tolkien's experiances during WWI. Any biography will tell you that notes for some of the earliest stories were jotted down in trenches. Please consider that we don't believe in hobbits or think that we're Elves or any nonsense such as that, but I know I'm not the only person that sees The Silmarillion as a far deeper and more spiritual work than most. One does not have to dig very deep at all, but merely pay attention, to see that it expresses more than a one-dimensional story.

NelyafinweMaitimo · 09-09-2007, 12:39 PM

Noldorin Christianity is only related to Christianity by Tolkien's influence from Roman Catholicism and is certainly not an off-shoot. While Tolkien may have used Catholicism for a starting point in much of his writing, he modified it heavily when he sculpted the Elves' creation myth. Noldorin Christianity is only what official documents have been calling it in Finland, and I'm not entirely sure why.

It is based on the concept that one becomes closer to God (Eru, if you want) through the act of creation. This could be the creation of art, of ideas, of children, etc...but, of course, one must come to recognize that one cannot create anything to claim, because it's only by the grace of Eru that it came to be. That, in my opinion, is the central concept and greatest lesson, though if you asked someone else they might give you a different answer...but that's religion for you.

I believe that it has gained the suffix "Christianity" because the core values are much the same. However, I find that the stories of The Silmarillion distinguish right from wrong in a much more abstract manner than the Bible or the Qu'ran. For instance, the Bible says "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but the Silmarillion seeks to address when it is necessary to kill, and when it is truly a sin. The Bible tells us "Honour Thy Father and Thy Mother," but the story of the Feanorians tells us that, while we must love our parents, it is often necessary to disagree with them and even disobey them. The list goes on, of course, but this dynamic is the reason I chose this religion. I've read the Bible four times now, cover to cover, and I have the utmost respect and profound appreciation for its message and its importance. I've also read the Qu'ran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Torah, and other religious texts, but, in the end, I had to embrace what touched me most deeply.

Also, I really do resent comparison to other religions formed from great works of literature, especially Scientology. While it is true that both were based on recent books, they otherwise have almost nothing to do with one another. One can't judge a religion by how it developed, but rather ought to look at its values and beliefs for what they are.

Let's remember that quite a few religions were based on books which some, to this day, consider to be fiction, and that those book were, at one time, also very recent. While it is a testament to a work's longevity, the age of the work does not dictate how profound its message is.

Lotesse · 09-09-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NelyafinweMaitimo

Noldorin Christianity is only related to Christianity by Tolkien's influence from Roman Catholicism and is certainly not an off-shoot. While Tolkien may have used Catholicism for a starting point in much of his writing, he modified it heavily when he sculpted the Elves' creation myth. Noldorin Christianity is only what official documents have been calling it in Finland, and I'm not entirely sure why.

It is based on the concept that one becomes closer to God (Eru, if you want) through the act of creation. This could be the creation of art, of ideas, of children, etc...but, of course, one must come to recognize that one cannot create anything to claim, because it's only by the grace of Eru that it came to be. That, in my opinion, is the central concept and greatest lesson, though if you asked someone else they might give you a different answer...but that's religion for you.

This is cool-sounding, but I really, really hve a problem with it being dubbed "chiristianity," BECAUSE THERE IS NO cHRIST HERE - NO jESUS, NO hEBREW gOD, SO WHY CALL IT A FORM OF cHRISTIANIty - sorry, dumb caps-lock accident - anyway, so why call it Christianity - it has nothing to do with Christ and Jesus and God, it's - I mean, call it Eruism or something, I dunno.

NelyafinweMaitimo · 09-09-2007, 06:08 PM

I was hoping someone would say that! That's the very problem I have with it. Of course, I didn't pick the name, but in my opinion it's more closely related to Judaism. However, the real justification I can see is that most people who advocate Noldorin *Christianity* do so because they simultaneously follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. However, not all of us do, so I support a more general name for the group that would not define us so poorly (and define Christianity so poorly). I have a problem with the name. The only alternative I've heard so far is Tolkienism, and I'm not sure if a devout Roman Catholic would want his name pasted to a religion that so many people consider polytheistic, even if he did create the premise.

Kevin McIntyre · 09-09-2007, 09:32 PM

It doesn't bother me if people want to use Professor Tolkien's mythology as a tool for constructing a moral life. Tolkien was a deep theological thinker and morality is a cornerstone of all his fiction. My issue is proselytizing. When one gains enlightenment (or whatever term works for you) through unique experience they become convinced they have the answer for everyone else. I am sure Tolkien has influenced me in many ways (my love of nature comes to mind, the need for sacrifice perhaps) but I do not think everyone should read Tolkien in the effort to convince them that my perspective is correct (which I doubt it is .. who the hell am I anyway).

NelyafinweMaitimo · 09-10-2007, 01:14 AM

It's not my intention to convert anyone, and I'm probably just as right or wrong as anyone else who ever believed something. I'm not saying "You ought to read The Silmarillion religiously, like me!" I'm merely asking your opinion or your comments on the fact that many people now do.

inked · 09-10-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotesse

This is cool-sounding, but I really, really hve a problem with it being dubbed "chiristianity," BECAUSE THERE IS NO cHRIST HERE - NO jESUS, NO hEBREW gOD, SO WHY CALL IT A FORM OF cHRISTIANIty - sorry, dumb caps-lock accident - anyway, so why call it Christianity - it has nothing to do with Christ and Jesus and God, it's - I mean, call it Eruism or something, I dunno.

Lotesse, I am impressed! For all our disagreements over the time here at Entmoot, I must say that you pose THE essential differentiation betwixt pseudoChristianity and THE REAL THING @.

Ethical systems per se are not Christian or even religious.

Christians make very explicit claims about the person of Jesus of Nazareth and His relation to God and humanity.

Ethical persons make decisions based on differingly valued ethical systems. For instance, Sauron was clearly a Nietzschian ethicist. Saruman was a Machiavellian. Frodo seems to have an implicitly Christian ethics.

Those would be good discussion points but hardly the basis for a religion and certainly not a Christian off-shoot.

NelyafinweMaitimo · 09-11-2007, 08:12 AM

Did some research last night. Apparently I'm not the only one who hates the name. The new name that the would replace "Noldorin Christianity" on all gov/legal documents would be "Eruhinism," which is what we've been using all along, thank you kindly. I like that much better.

Mark of Cenla · 09-24-2007, 09:59 AM

Just when I think I have heard it all...

Hey, believe what you want to believe. It's OK with me. Peace.

09-09-2007, 03:32 AM	#1
NelyafinweMaitimo Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Porvoo, Finland Posts: 47	Noldorin Christianity I doubt anyone here has heard of this. Noldorin Christianity started back in the 1980s and is the only religion based on the works of Tolkien. It actually references the Silmarillion as a "testament" and regards each story as a moral or philosophical lesson. I believe it started in Finland, and it is becoming increasingly common in other parts of Europe and the US. If anybody is interested in learning more, please let me know! I've been involved since I was 13 and would like to spread awareness. __________________ Kullervo, Kalervon poika, sinisukka äijön lapsi, pään on peltohon sysäsi, perän painoi kankahasen, kären käänti rintahansa, itse iskihe kärelle. Siihen surmansa sukesi, kuolemansa kohtaeli.

09-09-2007, 05:36 AM	#2
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Are you serious?! sigh That's all we need - more sub-sect christian off-shoots from fans of genius literature... Yikes. I mean - YIKES, man. Are you serious?? And if so, what is it all about? It's a Finnish thing, then? A Scandinavian subculture thing? wtf... __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

09-09-2007, 07:00 AM	#3
OldHippie Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 161	http://209.85.48.9/836/119/emo/headscratch.gif __________________ Music is like candy............. It's much better when you throw away the Rappers.

09-09-2007, 12:56 PM	#5
OldHippie Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 161	Um, Tolkien's books are works of fiction brought to light to be bed time stories for his children. There's no great underlying messages in them unless you want to dig and find somthing you want to find. I think your taking this a bit to the extreme. __________________ Music is like candy............. It's much better when you throw away the Rappers.

09-09-2007, 01:12 PM	#6
NelyafinweMaitimo Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Porvoo, Finland Posts: 47	The Silmarillion contains very few "bedtime stories." It's not The Hobbit, by any means. The Silmarillion was a product of Tolkien's experiances during WWI. Any biography will tell you that notes for some of the earliest stories were jotted down in trenches. Please consider that we don't believe in hobbits or think that we're Elves or any nonsense such as that, but I know I'm not the only person that sees The Silmarillion as a far deeper and more spiritual work than most. One does not have to dig very deep at all, but merely pay attention, to see that it expresses more than a one-dimensional story. __________________ Kullervo, Kalervon poika, sinisukka äijön lapsi, pään on peltohon sysäsi, perän painoi kankahasen, kären käänti rintahansa, itse iskihe kärelle. Siihen surmansa sukesi, kuolemansa kohtaeli.

09-09-2007, 12:39 PM	#7
NelyafinweMaitimo Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Porvoo, Finland Posts: 47	Noldorin Christianity is only related to Christianity by Tolkien's influence from Roman Catholicism and is certainly not an off-shoot. While Tolkien may have used Catholicism for a starting point in much of his writing, he modified it heavily when he sculpted the Elves' creation myth. Noldorin Christianity is only what official documents have been calling it in Finland, and I'm not entirely sure why. It is based on the concept that one becomes closer to God (Eru, if you want) through the act of creation. This could be the creation of art, of ideas, of children, etc...but, of course, one must come to recognize that one cannot create anything to claim, because it's only by the grace of Eru that it came to be. That, in my opinion, is the central concept and greatest lesson, though if you asked someone else they might give you a different answer...but that's religion for you. I believe that it has gained the suffix "Christianity" because the core values are much the same. However, I find that the stories of The Silmarillion distinguish right from wrong in a much more abstract manner than the Bible or the Qu'ran. For instance, the Bible says "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but the Silmarillion seeks to address when it is necessary to kill, and when it is truly a sin. The Bible tells us "Honour Thy Father and Thy Mother," but the story of the Feanorians tells us that, while we must love our parents, it is often necessary to disagree with them and even disobey them. The list goes on, of course, but this dynamic is the reason I chose this religion. I've read the Bible four times now, cover to cover, and I have the utmost respect and profound appreciation for its message and its importance. I've also read the Qu'ran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Torah, and other religious texts, but, in the end, I had to embrace what touched me most deeply. Also, I really do resent comparison to other religions formed from great works of literature, especially Scientology. While it is true that both were based on recent books, they otherwise have almost nothing to do with one another. One can't judge a religion by how it developed, but rather ought to look at its values and beliefs for what they are. Let's remember that quite a few religions were based on books which some, to this day, consider to be fiction, and that those book were, at one time, also very recent. While it is a testament to a work's longevity, the age of the work does not dictate how profound its message is. __________________ Kullervo, Kalervon poika, sinisukka äijön lapsi, pään on peltohon sysäsi, perän painoi kankahasen, kären käänti rintahansa, itse iskihe kärelle. Siihen surmansa sukesi, kuolemansa kohtaeli.

09-09-2007, 06:08 PM	#9
NelyafinweMaitimo Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Porvoo, Finland Posts: 47	I was hoping someone would say that! That's the very problem I have with it. Of course, I didn't pick the name, but in my opinion it's more closely related to Judaism. However, the real justification I can see is that most people who advocate Noldorin Christianity do so because they simultaneously follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. However, not all of us do, so I support a more general name for the group that would not define us so poorly (and define Christianity so poorly). I have a problem with the name. The only alternative I've heard so far is Tolkienism, and I'm not sure if a devout Roman Catholic would want his name pasted to a religion that so many people consider polytheistic, even if he did create the premise. __________________ Kullervo, Kalervon poika, sinisukka äijön lapsi, pään on peltohon sysäsi, perän painoi kankahasen, kären käänti rintahansa, itse iskihe kärelle. Siihen surmansa sukesi, kuolemansa kohtaeli.

09-09-2007, 09:32 PM	#10
Kevin McIntyre Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bree Posts: 148	It doesn't bother me if people want to use Professor Tolkien's mythology as a tool for constructing a moral life. Tolkien was a deep theological thinker and morality is a cornerstone of all his fiction. My issue is proselytizing. When one gains enlightenment (or whatever term works for you) through unique experience they become convinced they have the answer for everyone else. I am sure Tolkien has influenced me in many ways (my love of nature comes to mind, the need for sacrifice perhaps) but I do not think everyone should read Tolkien in the effort to convince them that my perspective is correct (which I doubt it is .. who the hell am I anyway).

09-10-2007, 01:14 AM	#11
NelyafinweMaitimo Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Porvoo, Finland Posts: 47	It's not my intention to convert anyone, and I'm probably just as right or wrong as anyone else who ever believed something. I'm not saying "You ought to read The Silmarillion religiously, like me!" I'm merely asking your opinion or your comments on the fact that many people now do. __________________ Kullervo, Kalervon poika, sinisukka äijön lapsi, pään on peltohon sysäsi, perän painoi kankahasen, kären käänti rintahansa, itse iskihe kärelle. Siihen surmansa sukesi, kuolemansa kohtaeli.

09-11-2007, 08:12 AM	#13
NelyafinweMaitimo Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Porvoo, Finland Posts: 47	Did some research last night. Apparently I'm not the only one who hates the name. The new name that the would replace "Noldorin Christianity" on all gov/legal documents would be "Eruhinism," which is what we've been using all along, thank you kindly. I like that much better. __________________ Kullervo, Kalervon poika, sinisukka äijön lapsi, pään on peltohon sysäsi, perän painoi kankahasen, kären käänti rintahansa, itse iskihe kärelle. Siihen surmansa sukesi, kuolemansa kohtaeli.

09-24-2007, 09:59 AM	#14
Mark of Cenla Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 105	Just when I think I have heard it all... Hey, believe what you want to believe. It's OK with me. Peace. __________________ Mark Wellman ><>

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