Saruman and Boromir

[Nurvingiel]

1) What were they like before they were tempted by the Ring? In the books, we only see them after they had been tempted.

2) How long did it take them to become 'corrupted', and what was the definitive moment where they actually desired the Ring?

[Elf Girl]

Interesting point. I don't know if Saruman actually knew he desired the Ring, so the moment when he started desiring it would be hard to figure out.

[samwiselvr2008]

Well, Boromir had a desire for the Ring ever since he first lade his eyes on it, but he was not fully corrupted untill the end of Fellowship fo the Ring, and possably not even then, for he felt gilty for it afterwards. Other then that, I don't know!

[Celebréiel]

Boromir, I think would have been kinda the same, obviously less tempted, but a proud, stubborn man of gondor. I think Saruman had a bigger change in the way he acted.
And yeah, I agree that saruman wouldnt have thought of him self as being corrupt or anything, while Boromir felt guilty.
~Celebréiel

[Millane]

i look at them as entirely different circumstances because of there reasons for wanting the ring... Saruman desired power over everone while Boromir wanted it to help save Gondor and defeat Sauron... i think with Boromir it was when he learned the ring had been found with Saruman it was many years earlier when he had started looking for the ring and delayed the white council from acting against sauron while he was weaker in Mirkwood

[Nurvingiel]

Oooh! Great points everyone! More discussion! More discussion!

I agree with you Millane, I think the Ring's influence, and effect on people's behavior, had a lot to do with their motives.

The Ring preyed upon people's motives and twisted them to its purposes - and tempted them.

The thing about Saruman though, is that originally, his motives were similar to Boromir. He studied Sauron very deeply, until he learned too much and despaired for the hope of Middle-earth.

Now the question is, given time, would Boromir have become more like Saruman?

[cassiopeia]

I think Boromir would become like Saruman in time: he would want to use the ring to become a great lord among men.

1) What were they like before they were tempted by the Ring? In the books, we only see them after they had been tempted.

Boromir would be like he is in the books: strong, proud and valiant. He would be a lot like his father (before madness overtook him).
I always thought Saruman would be a lot like Gandalf, less wise, but more noble.

2) How long did it take them to become 'corrupted', and what was the definitive moment where they actually desired the Ring?

Saruman became corrupted while studying the lore of the ring. In the appendices it says he had become corrupted by 2851 TA, so I would suppose it would have been around that time that he desired the ring for himself.
I believe Boromir was corrupted as soon as he saw the ring at the council of Elrond. It says 'he's eyes glinted' as the looked upon the ring. I think thats when he desired to have the ring.

[Narsil's Master]

i thought sauruman only turned evil to avoid destruction from sauron

[Guardian_of_the_Forest]

The ring took control of Boromir the second he saw it.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Narsil's Master
i thought sauruman only turned evil to avoid destruction from sauron

He wanted to defeat Sauron, and thought that the only way to do this was to take the ring for himself. But he obviously had his own well-being in mind over the well-being of Middle-earth... he became more fixated on becoming a powerful lord himself than on restoring peace.

[Cirdan]

Saruman was always a bit arrogant. He gave Gandalf a hard time about smoking at the Council, but them took it up in secret later on. Too vain to show human weakness. He coveted power, sought Orthanc and the palantir. His behavior was unsettling to Elrond and Galadriel even before he came in contact with Sauron via the palantir.

Boromir... kind of a career military type. More comfortable with the use of force than other strategies for success. Very heroic but with hubris.

[Balrog_of_Morgoth]

I can't remember where, but I've read that Saruman first studied the arts of Sauron and his ringmaking lore and then later began to see him as a rival.
As was said above, he eventually began to lust for power himself, and since he could not discover or master the forging of great rings, he desired Sauron's ring for himself, being confident that he could defeat Sauron and anyone else for that matter if he wore it. He deceived the White Council for many years while Sauron was in Dol Guldur, hoping to find the ring before its master did. But in the end, he feared that Sauron would find it first, being so close to the rumoured sight of the death of Isildur.

I think that Boromir simply desired to help Gondor and the cause against Sauron, and was good at heart. The ring simply overpowered his will to resist when it was in his presence for so long.

[Evenstar1400]

i think it wouldhave been interesting to see borimir and sauruman before they were corrupted.... im interested in what good deeds they performed

[Nurvingiel]

Boromir is only corrupted on the surface, so you can still see how he's noble and honourable, and looks out for the good of his people first and foresmost.

That's a little harder to see in Saruman, especially since Galadriel would rather have had Gandalf be the head of the Council. Maybe she saw something no one else saw at the time. Even though, other wise people would have chosen Saruman to be the leader.

[Gorhiriel]

Firstly, thanks to Nurvingiel for starting this thread.

The main difference between Saruman and Boromir was that Saruman wanted the ring for himself, to take over Middle-Earth. Boromir wanted to use it to destroy Sauron and save his country. also, after he tried to take the Ring, Boromir felt shame, and guilt, but redeemed himself by dying for Merry and Pippin.

About before they were corrupted, I think
Cassiopeia has the right idea.

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

agree with most of the things:
Boromir was corropted, but not complitli. he was fighting with
himself and in the end "returned" back. Saruman has no seconed thioughts, he wasn't ashaimed, and he died as bad.

[Melko Belcha]

Saruman probably started out like Boromir and hoped to find the Ring over throw Sauron, but as he delved deeper into the Ring lore he gained a desire for power. He began wanting to rule ME, and maybe with good intentions at first, but after so many years he began to think like Sauron and wanted the lands in his full control.

And Balrog_of_Morgoth, I remember reading that also. Saruman began to think of Sauron as a rival, and that just drove him down even further.

Boromir was very proud and noble, and he wanted to restore the glory of Gondor, and that's how the Ring got hold of him. It was at the Council when he first saw it that the Ring reached out to his desire and Boromir saw his chance to save his city. Boromir was smart enuff to know better, but his love for Gondor and the glory of old was just to strong. In the end I believe he finaly saw the hold the Ring had but it was to late.

If Boromir had the Ring and defeated Sauron, then Boromir would probably started to extent the Realm of Gondor in peace at first, then turn to force. He would regain the realms of old, but would be a tyrant lord who's people feared him.

[Bombadillo]

I think that Saruman was probably corrupted more quickly because Sauron would have poured a lot of his power into corrupting him, seeing his power of a white wizard. Borimir I don't thikn was fully corrupted, and there is no exact point where he is most drawn to it.

This is what I think anyway. It can be argued.

[Aragorn_of_the_west]

I agree with you Bombadillo,
i also think that Boromir was not fully corrupted- mainly because he reailized his mistake and deeply regreted it- as said before:
Boromir wanted to help his people and his desiere(sp?)was so strong, and the power of the ring, made him go mad with desiere.
As for Saruman- I believe that after so much research on the ring he was tempted to see for himself its power and maybe- that was what made him power hungery and corrupted.
that my op'- any others?

[Baby-K]

IMO Saruman was more easily corrupted because he was willing to be......he already had great power as a white wizzard & with the aquisition of the ring he would have yielded so much power that he could have 'ruled them all' (Perhaps he fancied himself a rival for Sauron?). His motives were purely selfish (thus already indicating a flawed character). Saruman was morally bankrupt as he refused to acknowledge that his actions were in essence evil & also didn't seem to notice the changes in himself - sort of like he believed it was his right to have the ring & that, in gaining the ring, he was free to do as he pleased, answering to no-one except Sauron (the epitome of evil).

Boromir, although also tempted by the ring, regretted his actions. But remorse does not prove that he would not eventually have succumbed to the lure of evil. I believe he was intelligent & noble enough to recognise his own weaknesses & realised that he would not be able to resist the ring, thus (knowing what the ring can do to someone) he chose to be remembered as a hero who died trying to protect Merry & Pippen (and essentially the whole of ME against Sauron & his puppet Saruman).

If Boromir had got the ring, would he have been able to wield the same power as Saruman would have? Or would he have found himself becoming another Gollum? If so it would have been tragic indeed to see such a proud, strong man reduced to a half-being.