music as a use of power

camerlyrose · 10-18-2005, 07:48 PM

Music is everywhere throughout the Silmarillion. Why is it so important? Are there any connections to Tolkein's concepts of enchantment, magic and subcreration? What are the effects of the music's power? What are the sources?

rohirrim TR · 10-19-2005, 02:54 PM

i've wondered about that too, C.S Lewis, had a very similar type of thing going on in "the magicians nephew" i think they must have talked about with each other at least, although i don't know where the idea came from originally

***Valandil*** · 10-19-2005, 11:48 PM

Very good thoughts, camerlyrose - and Welcome to Entmoot!

(if you like, we have an introductions thread for new members, stuck to the top of General Messages)

I see two aspects of it: One is the role music and song have played in myth and storytelling in ancient times - and perhaps a 'spiritual' dimension of that which related to fortune-telling, etc. The other is that perhaps it adds another dimension to the Biblical account of creation where God speaks things into existence.

In the case of The Silmarillion - everything seems to be sung into existence. And my understanding of the forsight that some have (especially Elves and Maiar), is that they know bits and pieces of the music that was sung before creation began - and that's what gives them clues to how something will come out.

Elanor · 10-20-2005, 05:43 PM

I talked about this quite a bit in another thread: My new theory on Tom Bombadil in the Middle Earth forum, mostly the first and last few posts. My idea was that Tom Bombadil was literally part of the music, but I got pretty deep about the creative power of music in one of my later posts.

Elanor · 10-20-2005, 06:02 PM

Here's a link to the specific post I was talking about.

Anyway, welcome to Entmoot, camerlyrose! I hope you come back and continue to post.

10-18-2005, 07:48 PM	#1
camerlyrose Sapling Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1	music as a use of power Music is everywhere throughout the Silmarillion. Why is it so important? Are there any connections to Tolkein's concepts of enchantment, magic and subcreration? What are the effects of the music's power? What are the sources?

10-19-2005, 11:48 PM	#3
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Very good thoughts, camerlyrose - and Welcome to Entmoot! (if you like, we have an introductions thread for new members, stuck to the top of General Messages) I see two aspects of it: One is the role music and song have played in myth and storytelling in ancient times - and perhaps a 'spiritual' dimension of that which related to fortune-telling, etc. The other is that perhaps it adds another dimension to the Biblical account of creation where God speaks things into existence. In the case of The Silmarillion - everything seems to be sung into existence. And my understanding of the forsight that some have (especially Elves and Maiar), is that they know bits and pieces of the music that was sung before creation began - and that's what gives them clues to how something will come out. __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

10-20-2005, 06:02 PM	#5
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	Here's a link to the specific post I was talking about. Anyway, welcome to Entmoot, camerlyrose! I hope you come back and continue to post. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

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10-20-2005, 05:43 PM	#4
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	I talked about this quite a bit in another thread: My new theory on Tom Bombadil in the Middle Earth forum, mostly the first and last few posts. My idea was that Tom Bombadil was literally part of the music, but I got pretty deep about the creative power of music in one of my later posts.