Iraqi Elections

[jerseydevil]

Well the Iraqi elections are going on now. I was going to post this yesterday since that is whent he first people were allowed to vote.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I was talking to my brother yesterday - he was in afganistan patrolling for their elections and we discussed the iraqi elections. He said the Afganistan elections were a cake walk - but we both agree that that probably won't be the case with the iraqi elections. A lot of secirty seems to be in place - but they can' protect people coming and going from their houses to vote.

We seem to be closing in on Zarquawi, we captured three high ranking associates of his two weeks ago - it was just announced.

I think whatever happens tomorrow - this election will give most of iraq a feeling of ownership in the government - something they have never had and something the terrorists don't want them to have.

[Nurvingiel]

I agree, and I really hope this goes well. This has such huge potential for stability in Iraq in the future.

Why would these elections be harder than the Afghanistan ones? Some people were attacked by extremists while trying to register to vote. Why would Iraq be worse?

*cheers for Iraqis*

[Embladyne]

I think that a feeling of ownership is important in keeping a government stable. If the people feel that their government is run in a way that actually includes their concerns then they are less likely to sympathyze with people wanting to overthrow it, and instead are more likely to work for reform.
Right now, I feel no ownership of the U.S. government. But, I'm trying to figure out how to work for reform of that.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Why would these elections be harder than the Afghanistan ones? Some people were attacked by extremists while trying to register to vote. Why would Iraq be worse?

There were no bombings or anything during the election in Afganistan. The terrorists are much stronger in Iraq right now than they were in afganistan. Zwarqawi has declared war on democracy and the election itself. Suchas this...

Election-related intimidation

Insurgents distributed leaflets in two Baghdad neighborhoods Friday threatening those who might participate in the elections.

"This is to everyone who wants to stand in the queues of elections, the queues of doom and death," said the leaflets distributed near shops, markets and homes in the al-Banook and al-Shaab neighborhoods. No particular group signed the leaflets.

Insurgents have been targeting police stations and polling centers and threatening candidates. At least 14 people died in pre-election violence on Friday alone.

An Iraqi soldier died and another was wounded when insurgents launched a mortar attack on Iraqi National Guard barracks in As-Suwayrah, multi-national forces officials said. As-Suwayrah is about 50 km (31 miles) southwest of Baghdad.

Hours before, four Iraqi police officers were wounded in insurgent attacks on a police checkpoint and a polling center in western Baghdad.

Two suicide car bombs also exploded near a Baghdad police station, killing four people, and a bomb severely damaged a building in Mosul that was to be used as an election center.

Two hospital employees in Mosul were shot and critically wounded on Friday. They were carrying IDs that allowed them to operate during a ban on vehicle traffic near polling sites, imposed as a security measure for the election.

Makeshift bombs also killed four U.S. soldiers in separate attacks in southern and western Baghdad, and gunfire killed a fifth soldier in northern Baghdad, the military said.

This was NOT the situtation in Afganistan.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Embladyne

Right now, I feel no ownership of the U.S. government. But, I'm trying to figure out how to work for reform of that.

Okay That's sort of funny actually.

[ItalianLegolas]

Hopefully, but not probably, the electoions will go off without a hitch, but what happens if a radical Shiite(sp) gets elected democratically? that would be a problem....

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

Hopefully, but not probably, the electoions will go off without a hitch, but what happens if a radical Shiite(sp) gets elected democratically? that would be a problem....

That doesn't seem to be the general mood in Iraq. They want to remain secular - and not controleld by religion. Even the hightest sheik is preaching about a secular government.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Embladyne

Right now, I feel no ownership of the U.S. government. But, I'm trying to figure out how to work for reform of that.

I expect that you do feel more ownership then you think. Would you feel exactly as powerless if we had a dictatorship?

[Insidious Rex]

so can the winner of this election tell the US to get out? or is this just an election to elect "founding fathers" who will set up the constitution only?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

That doesn't seem to be the general mood in Iraq. They want to remain secular - and not controleld by religion. Even the hightest sheik is preaching about a secular government.

Ironic really if you think about what just happened here...

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Ironic really if you think about what just happened here...

What exactly happened here? Is this another one of your conspiracy things?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

so can the winner of this election tell the US to get out?

They can tell us to get out - they've basically have had the power to tell us to get out - however - they want us there. I know you don't believe that - but they know they are not ready to take on the security themselves.

or is this just an election to elect "founding fathers" who will set up the constitution only?

It is also to set up the Constitution and then new elections will be held next year.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

It is also to set up the Constitution and then new elections will be held next year.

Hopefully by then the insurgency will have taken a heavy enough beating that more parties will be able to safely involve themselves in the election process.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Hopefully by then the insurgency will have taken a heavy enough beating that more parties will be able to safely involve themselves in the election process.

I'm sure they will - because the Iraqi army is being built up. A lot of good things are happening in Iraq too that isn't really being reported because the media would rather show bombings - than rebuilding.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

Hopefully, but not probably, the electoions will go off without a hitch, but what happens if a radical Shiite(sp) gets elected democratically? that would be a problem....

well, bush will probably declare it an extremist, terrorist supporting, rogue nation, like he did the last one, and remove it, but he still wont find any WMD

i'm just waiting to see if iraq really does get an elected gov't, or if somehow (amazingly) an extremely pro-usa gov't gets put in power, if certain parties can do it in america, they can most likely (and have before) do it on other soil

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

well, bush will probably declare it an extremist, terrorist supporting, rogue nation, like he did the last one, and remove it, but he still wont find any WMD

i'm just waiting to see if iraq really does get an elected gov't, or if somehow (amazingly) an extremely pro-usa gov't gets put in power, if certain parties can do it in america, they can most likely (and have before) do it on other soil

What the HELL are you talking about here? I love the little ignorant snipes at our election. Sorry - Bush was reelected by the people of the US - get over it already.

As for your little comment regarding the Iraqi government being a puppet state of the US. For your information - the person we supported in the interum government didn't get elected. Alwari was not the one the US supported - but we accepted the internum government's choice.

I love the ignorant conspiracy theories. We should have let Europe fall to communism and to Naziism - it would have done you guys some good. Then maybe you wouldn't be such ignorant assholes to us now. Talk about ingrates.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

actually, yes communism would have done us some good, if trotsky had beaten that right-wing git stalin, and there had been a true socialist revolution

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

actually, yes communism would have done us some good, if trotsky had beaten that right-wing git stalin, and there had been a true socialist revolution

Yeah - just go back to your little dream world.

[Nurvingiel]

There is a fundamental flaw that is the undoing of a true a communist government; to maintain a society where everyone is equal, you need a totalitarian regime which undermines the principles of the entire society. However, there is something to be said for many socialist ideas.

I doubt that Iraq will elect a socialist government, but I could be wrong.

Who are the major players in this election?

[jerseydevil]

From CNN concerning the elections.

Iraqis hopeful despite threat of bloodshed
'Good Morning, Orange City' radio airs a marketplace of ideas

By Arwa Damon
CNN
Saturday, January 29, 2005 Posted: 11:12 AM EST (1612 GMT)

BAQUBA, Iraq (CNN) -- "Welcome all listeners, welcome to a new episode of 'Good Morning, Orange City.' Welcome, we are waiting for your calls, our numbers are 530898 and 530 ..." Before radio talk show host Rafed Mahmud can finish his sentence, the phone at Diyala TV and Radio is ringing.

The show, called "Good Morning, Orange City" because of the region's famous citrus and palm groves, is quite the buzz in Diyala province, which is northeast of Baghdad, and has created a stir even in the capital, Mahmud said.

Iraqis can call in and lodge complaints, discuss daily issues, or merely express themselves.

"When the show first launched, it was very bizarre for citizens and for the government officials. This freedom has never been seen. As each episode went by I noticed that citizens were opening up and getting their issues off their chest," Mahmud said.

"The government officials were not expecting the citizens to be this open and really hold them [the officials] accountable. The government officials themselves often phone back to react to the complaints. We have really seen results."

The results came at a high price for the station established in September 2003.

In March of last year, gunmen attacked a bus carrying employees of the station, killing three employees and wounding another eight. About a week ago, Mahmud's 4-month-old daughter was killed in a car crash.

Mahmud was moving his family from Baquba after receiving death threats, when he noticed a vehicle tailing him. While trying to outmaneuver the vehicle, his car flipped, killing his daughter and injuring his wife and 6-year-old son.

Friday's guest at the station was Amer Latif, provincial director of the Independent Electoral Commission.

Amid what Mahmud said are the usual complaints about power outages, gas shortages, allegations of corruption by the local and national governments, and the security situation, Friday's callers also addressed the elections.

A caller from Moqtadiye said angrily, "All the people are all asking -- Who is going to guarantee our security when we are going to the polls?"

Amer said the electoral commission has arranged with Iraqi security forces and the coalition forces to ensure voter security.

"On the day of elections, all will be secure and Iraqis will be able to vote," he said.

Another caller complained about the black market for benzene, a common fuel. He said every station has different prices and that he thinks something fishy is going on.

Regarding the elections, he asked, "Up till now we still don't know how to vote or who is on the lists. How will we get to the polls? Can we go or will they come and get us?"

Amer explained the voting process and said there will be TV and radio broadcasts, leaflet distribution, and banners that will direct voters to the polls.

Mahmud said most of his callers have two concerns about elections.

"They are worried about security. And they also ask how can they vote when they don't even have basic services," he said.

Optimism under pressure
Although he compares the security in Diyala province with that in Falluja and Ramadi, Mahmud said that he believes that most of the province will go to the polls come election day, despite the insurgent campaign to deter them.

"There is insurgent propaganda being put out, and this is where the role of the citizen comes in and their love for Iraq," he said.

"I think that this is what is going to push the Iraqi to the vote. There are even some old women who say, 'We will go vote, even if we die in the voting stations.' This sentiment is what will allow us to have successful elections."

There are 170 polling sites in Diyala province, 40 of which are in Baquba. Many have been attacked despite efforts to keep the locations secret, but military officials in Baquba say there has been no sustained effort to take over the sites. Most of the attacks have consisted of a few bursts of small arms fire or a mortar round.

"They [the insurgents] won't be able to overrun our polling sites. The issue is to make sure that the people are not so intimidated to stay home," said Col. Dana Pittard, commander of the 3rd Brigade of the U.S. 1st Infantry Division.

"That's a tough one. All it takes is a guy shooting a couple rounds and people may decide to stay home."

Security out in force
The Iraqi police are securing most of the sites, with Iraqi army units and coalition forces a radio call away.

Brig. Gen. Tahsin Tawfia Jasim, director of the Joint Coordination Center, said 1,590 policemen and 509 police officers are securing polling sites throughout the province.

At one site, a primary school in central Baquba, Iraqi police said they came under machine gun fire the previous night but they repelled the attackers.

"There have been several attacks in this neighborhood. The police station down the road from here has been taken over several times by insurgents," said Capt. John Bushman.

But officials say that security has improved dramatically since the summer, when the attacks were more intense and sophisticated.

On the gate to the school is a "Wanted" poster, hung by insurgents, with the faces and names of local leaders wanted by the insurgency. Three of the names are marked with red crosses -- they have been killed.

At a rundown school with broken windows and piled-up desks in northwest Baquba that is slated to be a polling site, a policeman said, "They shot at us from over there; a mortar round, but it did not detonate. They can't scare us."

Residents across the street from the school complained the Iraqi police fired indiscriminately when they were attacked.

"We are living in danger here. They [the insurgents] are always trying to hit them [the polling sites]," Auday Sagir said. He said he will vote and is trying to choose between two lists.

About 100 meters (110 yards) down the road "Allawi is the Sharon of Iraq" is spray painted on the wall.

Posters for the various candidates and lists are hung on walls, mainly close to police stations, government buildings and the blast walls at some checkpoints -- locations where the insurgents cannot easily tear them down.

There is little public campaigning. Most is done behind closed doors, or through the TV and radio stations.

Exactly how many voters will be at the polls in Diyala is difficult to determine, as is who is really in charge of the city.

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