Of Hobbits?

durinsbane2244 · 02-14-2006, 09:20 PM

forgive me if this has appeared before, but is there any sign of the coming, creation, or existance of hobbits anywhere? i've just, literally today, finished re-reading the Sil, and it's not in there, but do we find there origins at all?
anyone? throw me a bone here!

Lefty Scaevola · 02-14-2006, 11:39 PM

At the time of the sil, they were East of the Misty Mountains, far from the scene of action. Parts of the the Great Journey of the Eldar, might have encountered Hobbit lands, but there is no mention of them in that regard or of any contact between elves and men/hobbits before the Edain moved westward in the time of the War of the Great Jewels.

durinsbane2244 · 02-15-2006, 08:47 PM

so are they considered part of the second group of the children of illuvatar? they fall into the second melody i suppose, as they are mortal...

Helix · 02-15-2006, 11:32 PM

I think the most we get about hobbits is in the Prologue to FotR ("Concerning Hobbits"). You're right about the Second Children of Illuvitar, durinsbane. "It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwareves. ... But what exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered."

I don't think the idea of hobbits existed when Tolkien was working on the Sil. After writing The Hobbit, he decided to work them into his mythos (IIRC).

durinsbane2244 · 02-17-2006, 08:47 PM

yeah, he wrote the Sil over his entire life, and the hobbits don't have the super-long lives of the numenorians, or the not-so-diluted-numenorians...

Olmer · 02-20-2006, 02:05 AM

Hobbits are genetic experiment of Morgoth in order to create a perfect spies -careful and almost undetectable, able to penetrate through any crack, very quick and with an aim of natural-born killers, persistent , endurable and highly loyal to those whom they will call "a Friend".
"...hobbits were in any case ... a diminutive branch of the human race." (Letter#319) Indeed, they WERE just a branch of small in stature, very hardy and strong woodland's people, who in the beginning of the First Age happened to live too far away and have got under an influence of Morgoth. I'm talking about Druedains.
I think that Hobbits came out as a resut of breeding selection (just the same, as for Orks Morgoth was selecting the ugliest of captured elve's offsprings), where criterias were the smaller size and the weatherproof feet which will allow to walk barefoot and therefore - soundlessly.

durinsbane2244 · 02-25-2006, 08:51 PM

schweeeeeeeeeet...

02-14-2006, 09:20 PM	#1
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	Of Hobbits? forgive me if this has appeared before, but is there any sign of the coming, creation, or existance of hobbits anywhere? i've just, literally today, finished re-reading the Sil, and it's not in there, but do we find there origins at all? anyone? throw me a bone here! __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

02-14-2006, 11:39 PM	#2
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	At the time of the sil, they were East of the Misty Mountains, far from the scene of action. Parts of the the Great Journey of the Eldar, might have encountered Hobbit lands, but there is no mention of them in that regard or of any contact between elves and men/hobbits before the Edain moved westward in the time of the War of the Great Jewels. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me,"

02-15-2006, 11:32 PM	#4
Helix Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: School! Posts: 107	I think the most we get about hobbits is in the Prologue to FotR ("Concerning Hobbits"). You're right about the Second Children of Illuvitar, durinsbane. "It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwareves. ... But what exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered." I don't think the idea of hobbits existed when Tolkien was working on the Sil. After writing The Hobbit, he decided to work them into his mythos (IIRC). __________________ Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo. -Elvish Greeting

02-17-2006, 08:47 PM	#5
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	yeah, he wrote the Sil over his entire life, and the hobbits don't have the super-long lives of the numenorians, or the not-so-diluted-numenorians... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

02-20-2006, 02:05 AM	#6
Olmer Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LI-woods, NY Posts: 653	Hobbits are genetic experiment of Morgoth in order to create a perfect spies -careful and almost undetectable, able to penetrate through any crack, very quick and with an aim of natural-born killers, persistent , endurable and highly loyal to those whom they will call "a Friend". "...hobbits were in any case ... a diminutive branch of the human race." (Letter#319) Indeed, they WERE just a branch of small in stature, very hardy and strong woodland's people, who in the beginning of the First Age happened to live too far away and have got under an influence of Morgoth. I'm talking about Druedains. I think that Hobbits came out as a resut of breeding selection (just the same, as for Orks Morgoth was selecting the ugliest of captured elve's offsprings), where criterias were the smaller size and the weatherproof feet which will allow to walk barefoot and therefore - soundlessly. Last edited by Olmer : 02-20-2006 at 02:07 AM.

02-15-2006, 08:47 PM	#3
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	so are they considered part of the second group of the children of illuvatar? they fall into the second melody i suppose, as they are mortal... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

02-25-2006, 08:51 PM	#7
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	schweeeeeeeeeet... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

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