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11-13-2005, 08:43 PM
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#1 |
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Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
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Crusades
i was just watchin a thing on the crusades, and there are some great parallels between the last battle of the first crusade and the battle of pellenor fields:
1. the crusaders held out in a citadel 2. Richard Lionheart came with a small force in a boat to help 3. they won against all odds sound familiar?
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
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11-13-2005, 09:26 PM
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#2 |
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Halfelven Daughter of the Dunedain, President of Entmoot
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Hmmmm
Jureslum(sp)- Minas Tirith Richard Lionheart- Aragorn Won- Won I've never thought of it that way before
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"Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life!"~ inked Don't meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. "Don't be such a sour wolf" Stiles ~ Heart Monitor http://www.wattpad.com/user/IceQueenofMitera |
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11-13-2005, 09:52 PM
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#3 |
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Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
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true, but it wasn't Jerusalem, it was the last crusader outpost on the coast, and the citadel [key point], and the fact that it was a small force of only 55 [there were aragorn, legolas, gimli, some rangers, and the dead]
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
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11-13-2005, 09:53 PM
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#4 |
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of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
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I think it's an exTREMEly loooooong shot comparison.
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
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11-13-2005, 10:04 PM
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#5 |
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Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: College!
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It's intriguing, though. And given Tolkien's religious beliefs...I'd do some research into that. Wonder if he studied the Crusades in, um, college? (or is it "university" over in the UK?)
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
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11-14-2005, 05:45 PM
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#6 |
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An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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I think I saw a Mighty Mouse cartoon with similar comparison possibilities.
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11-14-2005, 05:59 PM
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#7 | |
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Halfelven Daughter of the Dunedain, President of Entmoot
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Quote:
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"Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life!"~ inked Don't meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. "Don't be such a sour wolf" Stiles ~ Heart Monitor http://www.wattpad.com/user/IceQueenofMitera |
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11-15-2005, 08:45 PM
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#8 |
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Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
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righto, and i don't think it's that long, maybe a few less...o's...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
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11-15-2005, 09:22 PM
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Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator 
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Quote:
Also, the Crusaders were trying to reclaim their holy land, and the Gondorians were trying to keep the people of Middle-earth from being annihilated/enslaved. Plus neither side in LotR had religious motivations. I guess you could make a Richard the Lionheart/Aragorn comparison, as both were great warriors. However, the analogy would end there since Richard the Lionheart's reputation was solely based on being a great warrior. He was a terrible king, spending mere months of his ten year reign in England. Aragorn, on the other hand, was a wise and just King with a much longer reign. But... other than that... 
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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11-16-2005, 08:51 PM
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#10 |
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Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
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wow, nurv:
1. you're smart 2. you're right 3. i didn't mean any of that, just those few particulars in that battle...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
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11-16-2005, 10:00 PM
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Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
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perhaps aragorn was who tolkien thought richard should have been.
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11-17-2005, 01:53 AM
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 369
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Quote:
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11-17-2005, 03:45 AM
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#13 | |||
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Co-President of Entmoot
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Quote:
 Aw thanks. I was reading into it a lot.This is definitely a very interesting thread. Who is Aeneas Forkbeard, and why does he compare to Aragorn? 
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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11-17-2005, 05:15 AM
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#14 |
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The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
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Aeneas, supposed son of the Greek Goddess Aphrodite, and one of the survivors of the sacking of Troy. He fled with his father and wife (I think) fro the destruction, lost both underway, had the Cathegian queen Dido fall head over heels for him and ultimatedly settled in Italy and married a local woman. Aeneas is considered the first leader of what would later become the Roman Empire. Vergil wrote the 'Aeneas' which tells of his travel to Italy.
Personally I thought he was rather a bit of wimp.  Not exactly someone I'd liken to Aragorn. But I suppose I'm influenced by later writings...
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We are not things. |
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11-17-2005, 06:27 AM
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#15 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
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yeah Nurv is right, comparing Arargorn and Richard the "lion heart" - presumably thus named because he ran away from a lion one time and his heart was corrupt and greedy and twisted ...
just does not cut it .... despite hollywoood and the good press of his "name" ... he was indeed a terrible King, reputedly queer, evil, nasty, greedy and not caring for anything other than greed .... Now Prince John may not have been that good either ...but why did he have to raise taxes again and again to screw the people? well absent kingy boy was on crusades ... plus the idiot got captured and England had to pay his "king's Ransom" ... nay, you might as well compare Arargorn to Wormtongue ... btw has anyone played the castle game Crusader? stronghold crusader it is called .. good game ... despite ...er ...the trifles of history, i often have "good old King Richard - "the lion heart" on my side as an ally! ... everytime you kill another King and destroy his castle this OTT english actor's voice goes "Well done My lord! We are Royally impressed!' - still makes me smile - course the if he is an AI player, he usually sits there like a lemon and lets poor me do allthe work! ..so, perhaps historically correct then?i beleive the crusades historical map is mapped out there - there are either mutliplayer games, skirmishes, or scenarios or you can play single player scenarios or the historical campagain ... almost certainly you could probably actually play that last encounter i think Durinsbane 2244... |
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11-17-2005, 08:05 AM
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#16 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 694
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I believe the battle in question was for Acre. It was the last battle of Richard's campaigns in the Holy Land, and saved face after he twice turned back from Jerusalem without attempting to take it. As I recall, in the wake of his retreat Acre fell, and to the surpise of all he took a small force by sea and literally fought his way off the beach and into town, routing the defenders. When Saladin sought men to take the city back, nobody was willing. That's just my memory of a documentary I saw, forgive me if I have some details wrong!
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I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I? |
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11-17-2005, 11:07 AM
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#17 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
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oh, i wouldn't worry too much ... my summary of richard was rather sketchy in the least anyway ...
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11-17-2005, 09:14 PM
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#18 |
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Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
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yes, that battle of acre sounds like what happened...i too was watching a documentary on the crusades...history channel: hate the programs, love the specials, that's the channel in a nutshell for me...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
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