Dumbledore is gay!

[b.banner]

http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/2...288766000.html
i though he might be

[IronParrot]

This may sound very self-aggrandizing, but there's a tremendous amount of idiocy going on all over the Internet today, and I've just spent the last two hours writing a piece to deal with it.

Briefly: I think it enriches the series. But if you don't agree, it's entirely your prerogative to read Harry Potter as if Rowling had never said a thing about sexual orientation. And I'm going to stand by that when it comes to any remark any author makes about his or her own books.

[Tessar]

I think it's all a bit... frivolous and silly.


I mean... come on, what's the big deal? His sexuality has absolutely zero effect on the book at all.

Of course on the other hand that does make Dumbledor the coolest gay character EVER, but he's pretty kickass no matter what orientation he is .

[b.banner]

it just surprised me even though i kinda suspected it. It doesn't make me like him less especialy since i never liked him much anyway

[hectorberlioz]

It may or may not be a fraud on her part. Well fraud is pretty strong, afterall it is her series. My point is that she may not have written the books with Dumbledore being gay, but she now feels obliged -or whatever- to have a major character be gay.

[Pytt]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

It may or may not be a fraud on her part. Well fraud is pretty strong, afterall it is her series. My point is that she may not have written the books with Dumbledore being gay, but she now feels obliged -or whatever- to have a major character be gay.

Why, I wonder?

[inked]

Well, JK Rowling said she thought of him as gay and deleted a line in a proposed movie script on that basis. What is remarkable is that there is nothing in canon to support such an attribution unless you consider that a celibate lifestyle in the face of a same-sex attraction (never mentioned or described or hinted) is JKR's idea of normative homosexual behaviours. And it is a viable lifestyle choice just as for heterosexuals.

Frankly, I'm glad we won't have any backstory torrid romances of either orientation!

Imagine:

Dapper Dumbly and Miss McGonagall Do Dallas!

Albus and the Boys from Brazil on Break!

Dumbledore and Grindewald Gone Wild!

Hogwarts Blanket Bingo!



Personally, it may well be that JKR came to that understanding as the storyline progressed over the seventeen years it's been aborning. Authors often speak of their characters having a 'free will' that precludes specific desired actions by the authors and which require the adaptation of the author to the character. Particularly, Dorothy L. Sayers notes this of her characters in the LORD PETER WIMSEY series. And we know that JKR likes DLS.

But for JKR to state such an understanding of her character's "self" does not imply that she gives a seal of approval to all that goes by that designation in anyone else's definition of what constitutes that "self". If it had been pertinent to the story line - and it is the delimitation of the modern obsession with sexual antics that her story line is most notable for by example (snogging as publically ridiculous) and by omission (none of the main characters are gratingly graphically so engaged) - she would have to have included it. It seems an afterthought.

Lest anyone say I am being too kind because of my great love for the HP series, I must add that to have revealed Albus Dumbledore in all of his mistakes and errors and Machiavellianness in DEATHLY HALLOWS and then make this revelation is not, to my mind, a resounding approval. Yet the positives of heterosexuality are amply displayed in multiple familial settings (even, yech!, the Malfoys! ... just how did little Draco get to be? ... don't go there!).

And this certainly didn't fit the speculations that specific characters might be gay : Lupin, Lockhart, etc.

Probably will spin off a rather tawdry round of fanfic, though!

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by inked

Probably will spin off a rather tawdry round of fanfic, though!

Ah yes, in the great tradition of Anatomically Correct Legolas Dolls...Dumbledore Dolls!

[sun-star]

Originally Posted by inked

Probably will spin off a rather tawdry round of fanfic, though!

I think the fanficcers were way ahead of JKR on this one...

[inked]

sun-star, yes, but merely in time! Now with authorial apparent sanction. Oh, my! Hearts are probably all a-flutter all over the fanficdom!

HB, you are wickedly evil, young person! Wickedly evil! If they do this to the dry stick of Tolkien, what shall they do to the green stick of Rowling!!!

By the way, nobody gave up any other titles for possible fantasy novels we really don't want to think about!

Seasonally:

Dumbledore and the Friday 13

Dumbleween

Van Helsing and Dumbledore



For the interessted in various reactions, there is the ever popular in my mind:
http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=198

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

The problem, as always, is not whether or not Dumbledore is gay. The problem is that his character is so thinly drawn that he might or might not be.

In a universe completely devoid of logical consistancy, she can make up anything she wants. I notice she didn't make up this while the big money was still to be made.

[hectorberlioz]

Oh, and Dumbledore will be leaving Hogwarts. GLAAD is making him president of their organization.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Oh, and Dumbledore will be leaving Hogwarts. GLAAD is making him president of their organization.

You don't know from GLAAD, then. They need people who can actually finish a project. That sure isn't Dumbledore.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

The problem, as always, is not whether or not Dumbledore is gay. The problem is that his character is so thinly drawn that he might or might not be.

In a universe completely devoid of logical consistancy, she can make up anything she wants. I notice she didn't make up this while the big money was still to be made.

Exactly my thoughts, Sis, on both points. In fact, despite my joke about GLAAD, I can't see the "gay community" being too happy about her revealing this now. Not very stand-up-ish, is it?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Exactly my thoughts, Sis, on both points. In fact, despite my joke about GLAAD, I can't see the "gay community" being too happy about her revealing this now. Not very stand-up-ish, is it?

The gay community has real problems to worry about, I'll bet no one is too concerned about JKR's attempt to lengthen her 15 minutes.

[inked]

SACAA,

You will find this essay of interest. It is about the fact that as entertaining as authorial comments may be, the canon is what matters.

http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2007...an-the-author/

But your mileage may differ.

Hector B, you should read it as well. Just for fun. And possibly as an altogether due penance for your anatomically correct doll bit! Ugh!

By the way, the author of the essay addresses Tolkien and the whole familial industry with HOME et alia. Pretty good viewpoint.

[hectorberlioz]

Inked, that was a good read. Very true, his thoughts on the technicalites of whether or not Dumbledore is gay in the books etc...

Btw, I have heard of John Mark Reynolds. He is frequently a guest on the Hugh Hewitt Show.

[brownjenkins]

In it Dumbledore has no particular sexuality at all.

Poor guy!

For something that is "irrelavant", John Mark Reynolds seems to be taking it a bit too seriously.

I think it makes sense. In today's culture, it's more than common for someone in a leadership position to hide their homosexuality. I'd say that writing in parts "proving" Dumbledore's sexuality would have been unrealistic.

If nothing else, it helps reinforce the idea that people should be judged by their personality and actions, instead of by their sexual preference.

[hectorberlioz]

It's a blog, what do you think?

[inked]

BJ, it's not irrelevant when the press makes such a huge deal out of it, is it? That's why the response was written by a person who is well qualified to assess literature and who thinks HP is such.

"Prof. John Mark Reynolds has written an article for Scriptorium Daily called “Taking Stories More Seriously Than The Author.” The article is an important contribution to the discussion of Ms. Rowling’s comment at Carnegie Hall; it challenges us to consider how we read a book and how we understand its meaning. No doubt, it’s startling, sure-to-be-misunderstood, sound bite assertion that “Dumbledore is not gay” will be what most remember. Prof. Reynolds, the head of the Great Books program at Biola/Torrey, however, is saying much more. He knows how to read a book at depth and spends his days in colloquia with some of the brightest young people in the country discussing how to read and engage texts while reading the best books of the Western Canon. He writes today, quite simply, that there are limits on the control an author has on a text and its meaning — and that limit is reached when the book is published."
http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/ 10-23-2007

The argument is not to let the sound bytes "Dumbledore is gay" or "Dumbledore is not gay" override the significance of the Harry Potter series.

And I do think that is relevant since the canon does not support the issue.

E.G., Dante's treatment of his mentor, Brunetto Latini, in the fiery desert of Hell as punishment for his sodomy (Canto 15) is arguably an argument FOR homosexuality as a rational human choice. But as such in the INFERNO, Dante is showing that human reason as distorted by the Fall is not the ultimate judge of such a state of actions. In fact, the issue for Dante may really be that despite the deep love and affection he has for his mentor, despite Dante's human reason agreeing with the actions of this mentor within the bounds of that human reason, reason is NOT the ultimate arbiter of the matter. Revelation and the divine morality are the ultimate arbiters of that matter for Dante. See http://danteworlds.laits.utexas.edu/circle7.html canto 15.

Now, do you think it a fair estimation of Dante's DIVINE COMEDY to assert "Dante says gay is OK"? Would you think that the only important material in the whole of the DIVINE COMEDY. I doubt it.

This is the issue of relevance or irrelevance for HARRY POTTER. This is the material actually under discussion in the article.