Why would the Dwarves take a Ring from Sauron? Especially Moria??

[Valandil]

Just occured to me. Sauron had come crashing through Eriador, destroyed Moria's ally and trading-partner Eregion - and it even says that the doors of Moria were then SHUT! ('Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age')... then they're going to take a Ring of Power from this guy? Why would they go and do that?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Hmmm, maybe because he was Anatar, in fair form, and they didn't know it was Sauron. Not sure.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Just occured to me. Sauron had come crashing through Eriador, destroyed Moria's ally and trading-partner Eregion - and it even says that the doors of Moria were then SHUT! ('Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age')... then they're going to take a Ring of Power from this guy? Why would they go and do that?

You don't know why the doors of Moria was shut infront Celebrimbor face?
Because they were promised to recieve the Rings of Power for doing so - Sauron's undercover politics to get to the Elves.

By the way, later he tried to pull the same trick on the dwarves of the Lonely Mountain.

[brownjenkins]

i'm may be off on this, but it was my impression that sauron and the elves worked together on a bunch of minor rings... then sauron, maybe with elven help, made the sixteen that would go to the dwarves and men, and the elves made the three... then sauron made the one

if this is the case, the dwarven ones may have been handed out before the one was even made

anyone know for sure?

[Valandil]

I believe Sauron took possession of the 16 he gave away after sacking Eregion and killing Celebrimbor. IIRC, it's spelled out in the chapter on Celeborn and Galadriel in UT.

[Attalus]

Yes, and then he 'corrupted them,' JRRT says, tantalizingly. They were then doled out to the Dwarves and Men. How Sauron did it, hmmm, must have relied on their gold-lust, inflamed by the Ring.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Valandil

I believe Sauron took possession of the 16 he gave away after sacking Eregion and killing Celebrimbor. IIRC, it's spelled out in the chapter on Celeborn and Galadriel in UT.

ok thanks... guess i'm getting a bit rusty

[Michael Martinez]

The Dwarves knew nothing about the Rings of Power or the cause of the war with Sauron. Even if they knew what Annatar (who had spent much time in Eregion) looked like, Sauron need not have appeared to them in that same form.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yes he did. After the destuction of Numenor he could only take one form.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Yes he did. After the destuction of Numenor he could only take one form.

No, he was not! As JRRT said himself, at the beginning of the third age he could still assume a beautiful visible shape (UT)And when he came to the Elves he ADOPTED a specious fair form, which means he was able to select the desired image by choice
And since for the Elves he "ADOPTED" the image of the Elves look-alike, calling himself Annatar (Gift -giver), naturally comes assumption that for the Dwarves he appeared in more appealing to the Dwarves taste form, calling himself Artano (High-smith).

[Valandil]

TD and OLmer - I think you're both a little off on this one.

TD - this happened before the destruction of Numenor - so Sauron was still able to assume a fairer form. It was from 1699-1700 of the Second Age that Sauron over-ran Eriador, during which time he would have destroyed Eregion and taken the 16 Rings. It was not until 3319 Second Age that Numenor was destroyed.

Olmer - I think that's the start of the Second Age you're referring to, not the Third. Ohterwise, please let us know exactly where in UT you find this.

[Finrod Felagund]

Actually, Sauron found himself unable to control the dwarves with tthe one...which enflamed his hatred for them...The seven did not brin ghteir wearers under Sauron's cntrol, butmerely enflamed their lust for gold, which is a problem enough...

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Valandil

TD and OLmer - I think you're both a little off on this one.

TD - this happened before the destruction of Numenor - so Sauron was still able to assume a fairer form. It was from 1699-1700 of the Second Age that Sauron over-ran Eriador, during which time he would have destroyed Eregion and taken the 16 Rings. It was not until 3319 Second Age that Numenor was destroyed.

Olmer - I think that's the start of the Second Age you're referring to, not the Third. Ohterwise, please let us know exactly where in UT you find this.

Sorry, my mistake.
I meant to put "the Second".
This quote is from UT and from the letter#153.
But any way, I wanted to say that his inability to take other forms of appearance was temporary.
After the destruction of his physical body he needed to take a time to collect the "energy", but he was always bouncing back.
At the end of the Third age he was able again to take a human form.

Any way, I should agree with M.Martinez that the Dwarves probably saw Sauron in the form of respecful Dwarf smith-master, in this way they would accept the "gifts" without distrust and further questioning.

[Attalus]

I disagree that Sauron was able to take a human form by the end of the third age, but I would say 'humanoid.' Probably like Melkor, he took the shape of a gigantic black-clad warrior, but I think he was hideous of aspect, if one can take the examples of his Eye and the Black Hand.

[mewhmag]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Just occured to me. Sauron had come crashing through Eriador, destroyed Moria's ally and trading-partner Eregion - and it even says that the doors of Moria were then SHUT! ('Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age')... then they're going to take a Ring of Power from this guy? Why would they go and do that?

did anyone ever deny the offer of taking one of the lesser rings? (note: not the one or the elven rings). if you see the rings as symbols for temptation or corruption, that would make sense. they just had to accept the rings because of the temptation.

noone could have resisted it, because it is ubiquitous.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Attalus

Probably like Melkor, he took the shape of a gigantic black-clad warrior, but I think he was hideous of aspect, if one can take the examples of his Eye and the Black Hand.

Black Hand? Are you getting confiused with the White Hand of Saruman?

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Attalus

Yes, and then he 'corrupted them,' JRRT says, tantalizingly.

It says ... Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining Rings of Power; and he dealt them out to the other people of Middle -earth. (Sil.)
Could you give us a quote where says that it was specifically him, who "corrupted" the rings?

Originally Posted by Telcontar Dunedain

Black Hand? Are you getting confiused with the White Hand of Saruman?

He was not only be able to walk, but he was already able to take a "humanoid" form, which means the presence of the legs and arms.
And according to Gollum he was using them wery well even with four fingers.
"He has only four on the Black hand, but they are enough", said Gollum shuddering.

[Michael Martinez]

From "Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age":

...But Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining Rings of Power; and he dealt them out to the other peoples of Middle-earth, hoping thus to bring under his sway all those that desired secret power beyond the measure of their kind. Seven rings he gave to the Dwarves; but to Men he gave nine, for Men proved in this matter as in others the readiest to his will. And all those rings that he governed he perverted, the more easily since he had a part in their making, and they were accursed, and they betrayed in the end all those that used them. The Dwarves indeed provded tough and hard to tame; they ill endure the dominatin of others, and the thoughts of their hearts are hard to fathom, nor can they be turned to shadows. They used their rings only for the getting of wealth; but wrath and an overmastering greed of gold were kindled in their hearts, of which evil enough after came to the profit of Sauron....

Emphasis is mine, of course.

[Attalus]

Beat me to it, Michael.

[Michael Martinez]

I admit it. I used Google to find an old citation. I see now there was at least one typo in it.