12-11-2008, 09:58 AM | #1 |
Elf Lord
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The Eye of Sauron
How do you envision the Eye of Sauron in a physical sense?
Do you see Sauron as normal, two-eyed, and "the Eye" is just a figure of speech? Or do you see him as having one eye missing, perhaps with an eye patch or just a vacant socket? Or do you see Sauron the cyclops with one eye in the center of his forehead? Or is he simply an Eye, like in the movies? I kind of like the eye patch idea, being a Dread Pirate and all, but I honestly go back and forth between it being a figure of speech and him having one empty eye socket.
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12-11-2008, 12:35 PM | #2 |
Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath
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I'm afraid I'm still influenced by the movies, but the "Great Eye" is mentioned in the book, so I go for one giant eye, "wreathed in flame". Wasn't there a mention somewhere in the book that he had a room for the Eye in Barad-Dûr, not a "cup" like in the films? ( I )
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12-11-2008, 01:05 PM | #3 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
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A few years ago there was a long and heated thread here about the Eye.... Let me see... HERE it is.
I remember I used to argue that Sauron indeed had only one physical eye (after his fight with Elendil and Gil-Galad). But I don't think so anymore. Someone had posted a quote from Akallabeth describing how after the Downfall Sauron returned to Mordor: Quote:
Quote:
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12-11-2008, 01:47 PM | #4 |
Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath
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The idea of S having an actual body is wierd. Perhaps the Palant*r was focused on his Eye, like there was a Mordor bug holding a lil TV-camera in front of it? And S himself resided in another room, so all those "weak" who beheld either the P of B-D or some other one, would see only that Eye - hence the idea of there being but a single eye.
Maybe Gollum's lust for the Ring granted him temporary power to see something else as well, like S's hands, and maybe Gollum thought that he could thus have clues about the whereabouts of the Ring. Remember, this is mad old Gollum we're speaking. I said this cause Gollum knew S only had 9 fingers, how else could that have been? He hardly heard that accurate stories.
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12-11-2008, 03:52 PM | #5 |
Elf Lord
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Gordis, it is indeed my belief (sometimes) that he lost one eye in the downfall.
Either he lost it physically during the destruction of Numenor (falling and flying debris can put your eye out) or some spiritual harm before/during the downfall prevented him from reforming a body with two functional eyes. It is clear the guy lacked depth perception in a metaphorical sense as well as having a narrow view. Other times, I agree that he probably had two eyes like everyone else but had "a look" that he'd give, earning the description "the Eye." Noble Elf Lord, there is no doubt or debate about whether Sauron had an actual body. Gollum knew Sauron had nine fingers because he saw them. Sauron tortured him personally. I think there's also something in HoME or Letters verifying the fact.
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12-11-2008, 04:03 PM | #6 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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DPR, unfortunately, the idea of one-eyed Sauron is crushed by the other quote also posted by Maerbenn in the old thread Maerbenn's post
Quote:
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12-11-2008, 04:07 PM | #7 |
Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath
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No it wouldn't... That would be somewhat ironic. I don't believe Mor did though. So go figure.
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12-12-2008, 04:41 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
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12-12-2008, 05:52 PM | #9 | |
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The Eye of Sauron always reminds me of this bit from the Irish mythological cycle:
Quote:
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12-13-2008, 04:56 AM | #10 |
Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath
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Willow, that's an ingenious thought. (Did I type that right?) Well then - suppose it was a weapon like that - was it really a deformity which Sauron took advantage of, or did he plan it as such? Could be either way.
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12-13-2008, 06:29 AM | #11 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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I usually thought of Sauron to have a physical, fairly humanoid body, with two eyes. The references to the Eye I took to as a description of Sauron's power, to create a feeling of presence from afar, so you'd continually have the uneasy idea that he was always there, watching you, knowing what you were thinking. Something that never makes you feel safe.
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12-13-2008, 03:19 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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12-13-2008, 04:22 PM | #13 |
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12-13-2008, 05:16 PM | #14 |
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Tolkien writes in Letters that “Sauron should be thought of as very terrible” to look upon – as in, “inspiring terror”, frightening. I believe he also goes on in that Letter to say that he did have a body, and hands (but was missing a finger – the same way that Frodo was later missing a finger).
But I always imagined Sauron as cyclopean. Wikipedia repeats the theory that belief in Cyclops probably arose from Greek discoveries of fossils: this is the skull of a dwarf elephant displayed in the zoo of Munich, Germany: In my research on this (searching for a neat image), I found this post on Odysseus and the Cyclops with this image of that part of the Odysseus myth; it is very like the image I have had of Sauron “in my mind’s eye.” There is also a painting by Odilon Redon (1840-1916) , The Cyclops, ca. 1914: Last edited by Alcuin : 12-14-2008 at 11:32 PM. |
12-14-2008, 09:37 PM | #15 | ||
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm starting to like the idea of one good/normal eye and one freaky/scary eye, but there's no real evidence of that.
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12-15-2008, 05:47 AM | #16 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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I don't see any problem with that. I suppose that while he could do it at a distance, the effect would be stronger in his presence. He may not have had a fair form to look upon in the Third age, but I suspect it still was very intimidating.
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12-15-2008, 06:55 AM | #17 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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12-15-2008, 01:37 PM | #18 | |||
Elf Lord
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Not two minutes into my search for quotes supporting a one-eyed Sauron I found one that speaks strongly against it. From 'The Council of Elrond'. Note the plural:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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12-15-2008, 02:51 PM | #19 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I don't do sarcastic when it comes to Tolkein, unless it involves Feanor, using the Eagles to throw the Ring into Mount Doom, or the defeat of the Witch-King. The applause was and is sincere.
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12-15-2008, 03:03 PM | #20 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Yes, I have been through it myself. I used to argue that Sau lost one of his eyes to Gil-Galad's Aiglos, but then abandoned it for lack of evidence.
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