The N-word and ghetto sadness/stupidity

[afro-elf]

For the newer folk here be aware that I am Black.

With that being said you can review some of my thought in the discrimination thread.

I HATE the ghetto mentality. As Chris rock once said there is a civil war going on in American on one side you've got black people the other side niggas and the niggas have got to go.


There was recent uproar about the Boondocks animated show with the following: The premise was what if MLK had not died but was in a coma for 40 years.

Martin Luther King, Jr.:

"Is this it? This is what I got all those ass-whoopings for? I had a dream once. It was that little black boys and little black girls would drink from the river of prosperity, freed from the thirst of oppression.

But lo' and behold, some four decades later, what have I found but a bunch of trifling, shiftless, good-for-nothing niggers; and I know you some of you don't want to hear me say that word. It's the ugliest word in the English language.

But that's what I see now--niggers. And you don't want to be a nigger. Because niggers are living contradictions. Niggers are full of unfulfilled ambitions. Niggers wax and wane. Niggers love to complain. Niggers love to hear themselves talk but hate to explain. Niggers love being another man's judge and jury. Niggers procrastinate 'til it's time to worry. Niggers love to be late but hate to hurry.

.. ...Black Entertainment Television is the worst thing I've seen in my life... ...Usher, Michael Jackson is not a genre of music... ...And now I would like to talk about Soul Plane... ...

I've seen what's around the horizon and I promise you, you niggers have nothing to celebrate! And no,I won't get there with you... I'm going to Canada.

other thoughts

When you walk through the hood what do you think and feel?

Do you feel a pride that comes from being part of a community of people known as hard workers, highly educated people, a courteous, respectable people? Do you feel safe in your community when you walk down the street, secure that there are no visible signs of violence, drugs and decay? When you see a group of young Black males do you smile knowing that they will greet you with niceties? When you see a man, woman and child ( a family)do you think isn’t it nice that so many young people today are taking care of their responsibilities? When you enter any kind of service establishment do you think how nice it is to be greeted with pleasant discernable English?

Do you think and feel those things? HELL NO!

When I see things like this I feel anger and shame. I feel anger that I will probably be judged by the worst aspects of the black community. I feel anger that more young blacks die due to Black on Black crime than any reason I feel anger that we have the highest teen birthrate in the country. I feel angry that we have the highest rate of chemical dependency. I feel angry at our appalling educational record. I feel anger that so many people are on welfare.

There are; however, two things that enrage me like no others. One is whiney ass angry black people. The kind of blacks that sit around blaming whitey for keeping the brother man down. It isn’t whitey. YES IT AIN’T WHITEY ( I’ll explain this later) The ills of black community are now self-infected. Yes I said self-infected. We are sole bearers of the responsibility for the perpetuation of the ills that plague the black community. Are we so debased as a people that we victimize ourselves?


The prime rage that burns though me is there seems to be a concept that has saturated the consciousness of a “certain class� of black people that being black is synonymous with the lowest form of inner city life. What I find more appalling is that people defend and glorify this lifestyle. The ghetto is ****ed up. Drugs, gangs, welfare, low education, teenage pregnancy, black on black violence. What kind of sub-human up mind would sing praises to ghetto life. Talkin’ ‘bout ‘I’m jus’ tellin’ it like it is. Dis is me.’ What honor in being a loud mouthed, uneducated, misogynist, absentee father, violent thug? Can you believe there are actually people in praise of Nigga-ism?

[Rían]

I'm glad you started this thread because I read a really thoughtful essay on this recently and was going to start a thread myself - I'll see if I can find it on-line....

[afro-elf]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I'm glad you started this thread because I read a really thoughtful essay on this recently and was going to start a thread myself - I'll see if I can find it on-line....

I sure hope that you can find it.

AE

[Nurvingiel]

You're welcome to come up to Canada Afro-elf!

I don't know anything about ghettos. I read in the Utne Reader (I think it was) that there was a shortage of grocery stores in "ghetto" neighbourhoods. One solution was that liquor stores started carrying fresh vegetables in addition to their regular stock. This benefitted residents and the store, because the store could supplement their income, and people could eat some decent food.

Is it true that there's ghettos in L.A. where it's not even safe to drive around? How does such a situation come about? I think someone's Sociology masters thesis could discuss just that.

[afro-elf]

[QUOTE=Nurvingiel]You're welcome to come up to Canada Afro-elf!

I "lived" there for awhile and would like to do so offically. But, the creditials that I would have to use for immgration would be teaching ESL and I REALLY do not want to teach English again.

[QUOTE=Nurvingiel]Is it true that there's ghettos in L.A. where it's not even safe to drive around? How does such a situation come about? I think someone's Sociology masters thesis could discuss just that.

L.A. ha! It's in most excessively urban ( read black) area that just being outside is dangerous.

There has been tons of research but liberal black leaders stay in power by working for handouts (welfare) and preaching '60's style black arguments.

People look around and say things haven't changed gives us more handouts. It's the handouts that keep you where you are.

It just keeps you a slave waiting for massa to take care of you.

[Insidious Rex]

Reasonable thoughts but I fear you have veered into just as much incorrect simplification of the issue as the thugs you rail about ("its all whitey's fault"). The truth is of course is that its all of our faults. Black AND white. We need not battle to lay the blame on one side alone. Anyway Bill Cosby would be proud...

Although I agree with you about contemporary black 'pop' culture if you will. Its disgusting. But so is the pop white culture you see on the media. So if everyone is judging all blacks by 50 cent and Soul Plane then Im gonna judge all whites by Brittany Spears and Leave it to Beaver. Short sighted all around...

I live in one of the richest counties in the United States. Its also predominately black. I can drive for mile after mile after mile and see black folk in 3/4 million dollar homes washing their Escalades and mowing their immaculate lawns. These are doctors and lawyers and engineers and CEO's etc who work hard every day and live a basic simple suburban life just like so many white folks do. Some of them pay homage to the 'thug' culture by simply buying into the materialistic stupid bling bling mentality but I dont think very many of them see it as "identifying with the hood!". To them its simply the popular thing to do. Its the current pop culture cycle (and I dont say BLACK pop culture because in today's world little white boys and girls get into it just about as much as their black peers. Now Im thinking Martin would find that somehow comforting even if the whole thuggie misogynistic aspect would be disturbing to him. Dont you?).

Anyway, I guess what Im saying is I agree the current black cultural ideal is bankrupt and highly disappointing. But I don’t see that as necessarily causing whites to see blacks as “shiftless� and lazy and crack eating welfare cheats. On the contrary I think its created a whole new (also negative) image of the American black. Most people associate black rappers with money now. Most people associate corn rows and tattoos (on blacks) with thugs now. Not with inner city 80’s style welfare queendom so much anymore. You’ve been away a while. I think we have a whole new set of embarrassing issues to deal with (grills??!). A whole new set of stereotypes. We aint all just a bunch of watermelon eatin Tom’s no mo’ boss!

[Butterbeer]

how do ghettos come about?

are you for real??

I find it totally amazing that it was just the sixties - the sixties man!!! that America the "land of the free" had s**t like blacks having to sit at the back of the bus and segregation etc etc ...

i am btw not particularly having a pop at america here per se - but Nurv darling ... how do ghettos come about???

...and you want "socioligists" to "study" it??????????


g e t r e a l !!!


best, BB x x x

[Butterbeer]

Where i live is about to become a BME Majority City shortly (Black Minority or ethnic) - new ghettos spring up and shift and change .... now the 2nd gens hate the new waves - the kurds and such ... then they will look down on the next wave ...

the most racist, negative views on Black community here currently?

The asian population - esp the Muslims- and this shines through even from the professional 2nd or 3rd gen prosperous Muslims -

but then there is ,this idiotic Muslim respect for Hitler too - even when you point out he'd a gassed ya!

we had english white, half asian (pakistani) half english white, 2nd gen english black (nominally christian, mother Muslim, confused about bacon butties! ), a german and a few others in here today - you know what we all had a laugh getting into the World Cup!!!



- there IS a perception from the Asian community especially, but perhaps more widespread in varying degrees - that the eurasian Indian or Pakistani or Bangla English is more of a hard working shop-keeping or career minded person that those of Caribbean or African English.

[afro-elf]

Insidious Rex,

Nice to see some of the old crew still around.

Part of my emotional response to the topic is that I work with kids who are in trouble and their parents. I can not recall how many times I have heard the parents or the students make the claim about the whites are just against them and their children. I even have a Black co-worker who actively tells the clients that whites want to see them fail and the clients are" Yeah, that's right."

Unforunately, where I live has a very large black underclass and these issuses surface daily.....more young blacks die due to Black on Black crime than any reason... have the highest teen birthrate in the country... have the highest rate of chemical dependency....our appalling educational record.

You make the statement about judging ALL blacks this of course is not leveled against all blacks but a segment of the population...We are sole bearers of the responsibility for the perpetuation of the ills that plague the black community.


The key word here is perpetuation. Yes, blacks have had a messed up history and at one time needed some assistance.

In the lower income area not the affluent ones Insidious Rex life is a sad issue. I have so many kids I work with , who are smart and can be productive who may not make into adulthood. Every day, I have to go into the muck and the mire
and advocate for these youths. Daily I come heartbroken, angry, and ashamed. The new stereo -types you mention have just been added on.

But I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY, believe that healing the ills of the black community must come from within.

Personally, I think whites( of today as a whole) have a better ability to judge individuals vs groups than the clients I work with.


It seems that you focused more on the MLK section more than the latter of which those problems still plague the black community.

My focus is on how blacks see themselves...there seems to be a concept that has saturated the consciousness of a “certain class� of black people that being black is synonymous with the lowest form of inner city life.

As far as Britney and Beaver, when I do work with them they don't blame blacks for keeping them down. I should say they are not breeding grounds of violence and hatred...May just air headed teeny poppers and stiff yuppies... OH NO! On second thought.... bring on the bitches and hoes

[afro-elf]

Let me add that I am venting due to the daily grid of working with the "bad" kids.

I am aware that lambasting them is not the way to reach them.


Let's change the topic as how can we reach them?


As a better of fact even though I can not do it now maybe when I pop back on I'll start a thread of how to back a better society.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

how do ghettos come about?

are you for real??

I find it totally amazing that it was just the sixties - the sixties man!!! that America the "land of the free" had s**t like blacks having to sit at the back of the bus and segregation etc etc ...

i am btw not particularly having a pop at america here per se - but Nurv darling ... how do ghettos come about???

...and you want "socioligists" to "study" it??????????


g e t r e a l !!!


best, BB x x x

Well, yes, who else should study ghettos? Mechanical engineers?

Social studies, while they certainly have limitations, are perfectly valid.

I don't know how else to come at such a complex problem.

[CAB]

Welcome back afro-elf.

I think one of the major problems is that success or even effort outside of a select few fields is seen as “selling out�. There is certainly a growing number of black professionals (I live outside Atlanta, there are many here), but they often seem to be seen as outsiders among the black community as a whole. In my experience, many of these black professionals or even just “hard workers� are recent arrivals from Africa or the Carribean and don’t have the same cultural bias against effort and success.

I used to think that the idea that black people didn’t generally succeed in some areas due to lack of black role models was wrong. I don’t think that now. Since there isn’t a large middle class to which they can feel they belong, young black people are much more likely to cling to the lower class, violent, live by the moment lifestyle in which so many blacks exist. It isn’t easy to be an outsider. This may be a short-sighted attitude, but I think most of us are rather short-sighted.

As for blaming “the man� for all problems, this seems to be something of a cultural holdover. It wasn’t that long ago that is was mostly true. Actually, I would say that there is more of this racism even today than you seem to admit. I agree with you though that this blaming attitude is a major roadblock to repairing the black community and that this repair must come from within.

Concerning the glorification of the “ghetto life�, I couldn’t agree with you more. And I think that those who claim that popular culture doesn’t have a major influence on the young are fooling themselves. These “gansta rappers� should be shunned by the black community (actually, all communities), but they get the opposite treatment instead. I think they are basically pimping out (and perpetuating) the miseries of black people for their own profit.

PS. I am also a Boondocks fan. Great comic strip and good show so far. I even made a half-hearted attempt to make a frame from the comic strip my avatar here, to no avail.

PPS. I am sorry to see that you won’t be making any posts in the Tolkien forums. This is my first post outside of them.

[afro-elf]

Thanks for the reply CAB,

As far as the Tolkien threads I posted quite a lot back in the Second Age of Entmoot. If you found some ancient post of mine that you felt was interesting if you PM me I would be willing to discuss it if I could.

Cheers,

AE

[Zilbanne]

Hi Afro Elf! I'm white and while I don't have that indepth of an understanding of comtemporary black cultural and socioeconomic problems, I must say I do want black people to live fullfilling and personally meaningful lives. It's vitally important for all of us as human beings, regardless of our skin color outside, to have the opportunities to do so.

On a public broadcasting station, in the U.S., I watched a young black woman who was talking about getting a Masters Degree ( I don't remember in what field ). She said that when she told other black people in her neighborhood that was getting an advanced degree, several of them said she was getting
" uppity" and " above herself ". She said she felt horrifyed that the people were actually quite angry with her for wanting and achieving a higher education. Further more, she remarked that some of these people she knew for most of her life and that it felt alien and strange to be so put down by the very people she thought would be there to cheer and applaud her efforts.

This is all VERY SAD. From what you say Afro Elf, this kind of scenario is playing itself out again and again.


By the way, here is part of the reason I came to the Entmoot just recently...On another internet forum I belong to, ...I mentioned the works of Tolkien as some of my favorite literature. A Canadian white woman, put Tolkien down on the thread I started as being elitist and complained that his work required too much education to enjoy.

I thought Tolkien's works were for anyone who wanted to delve into them and can be enjoyed at many different levels.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by afro-elf

I sure hope that you can find it.

AE

Hi AE!

I found the essay, but can't figure out how to get it here. It's in the June 5, 2006 issue of Newsweek. It's called "White Guilt, Deciphered" by George F. Will, and his column is called "The Last Word".

Let me know if you can find it and what you think!

[The Telcontarion]

I absolutely agree with everything, chris rock said and most of what you said fro-bro. However just like bill cosby and his comments I think you might be way off base. I can't answer in full now as I have some personal(romantic) issues to resolve right now, but definately tommorrow, it will be in depth. but here is a link to start you thinking of the direction I will be going:

The CIA smuggles drugs into poor communities in this country!!!!
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/141204webbmurdered.htm

(my girl left me alone so I will have alot to say after all )
These things do not happen because of racism, that is a trick on the white man - I wil be citing tim wise on that issue - and a cover for what is going on in this country and the world in general. It is how we are controlled on the surface, so they can carry out their agenda; divide and conquer.

So, attacking the opressed, supressed and marginalized blacks of america is very wrong. I am jamaican as some here already know. When I first came to this country and saw the way things were I was shocked. I immediately blamed my fellow african americans: rap, hip-hop, guns and drugs for their situation. Then I was learning, and I started to look into myself (the man in the mirror) and had several epiphanies. One was, if in jamaica, the poeple of which are the same as the africans here (just cousins or brothers and sisters/parents seperated - some taken to the islands and some taken to the continent) if we are the same, then why we could possibly be so different. Many things accured to me, that resulted in my progressive discoveries on the problems facing the world as a hold.

In jamaica, the Prime Minister is black, the police commissioner is black and most every important person in the country is black. So we have very immediately recognizable powerful role models, not just activists or group leaders, but people who actually have real power and make decisions on a day to day basis. In america, generally every person with power (until recently with Rice and Powel-puppets really) are white. So in jamaica what you see is young people behaving exactly as is done here, but at the point when they are about to enter into the work force all that changes. They now have to dress professional, and ware shirt and tie and suits. Here in america it is more common for you to be called an uncle tom for that. Also, the majority of the black people will not take that path because they think it means your trying to be white, as appose to going into a new faze of your life within the society. We have criminals in jamaica too, but they use their money to send their children to school to become doctors and lawyers, (for the most part, not always true-generally yes) while here in america - like in the movie menace to society - parents raise their children to do the same things they did; this all stems from the fact that there is a lack of immediate role models, so that successful images are not divided by race. There is a huge identity crisis going on here. It is one of the main reasons why I advocate that we all leave and go back to africa now, as Marcus Garvey had said. It is the only way for us to understand ourselves again and the surest way. Sadly most are incapable of doing that because of the fear of change among other fears, that's why I am the way I am when it comes to fear, I won't allow fear to stop me from making the decision that needs to be made, ever!!! That's why I say people in general, weither black or white, are cowards.

Another epiphany was that in jamaica we did not have the problem of crime, guns and drugs in our communities like here, not on the same scale. When I was in NY, I had the luxury to just think well there has to be some old and very promanent black communities elsewhere in this country and this is just how things turned out in NY: wrong!! I have lived in 3 different cities now, and where ever black people were, there communities had these problems. How could this be, when I did not grow up with this problem. I realised since we are all equal, there had to be an outside operating factor here; enter in now the link I gave earlier about CIA and drug smuggling. Gun smuggling as well. Then I applied the same reasoning to the issues that faced most african nations, conflict diamonds, and other precious minerals in africa and how it relates to the instability in those countries. Again the same problem, we do not make guns yet they are there, why. Companies here in the US where found to be complecit in trading weapons for diamonds in Serra Leone. When I looked into it, I found out that 68% of the worlds precious metals are found in africa. What that means is that, it is a misconception to believe that africa is in general poor, it is infact the riches continent on the planet; if it were stable. You would have to pay a stable country a hell of alot of money for it's products if it had a stable and healthy economy and government. With instability countries can easily be taken advantage of.

You see, who benefits from africa being unstable? Obviously it is those who wish to exploit it and remain in power, who are they, the same ones who have ever done so.

Understand one thing here, (and I am not an apologist for racists - it is real and they do exist) I am not talking about racism here. That is a manufactured ploy, played, believe it or not, not on the black man but on the white man. It is the same divisive force used with the different religions.

Tim Wise said that whiteness was something done to white people, it was not an indeginous concept to any of the european ethnic people who origianlly came. They were looked down upon almost as much as black people were ( grapes of rath for eg.) and historically treated just as bad (the way the english treated the scottish as well as the irish and peasants in england etc. hurrible brutal treatment). Now when they started to make common cause with african slaves and could possibly rebel and over throw aristocratic control and tyranny, all of a sudden they created the notion of the white race and in essense, the people who "last week" they hated, were now on their team to keep a system in place that actually helps to keep that poor white man a poor white man. You see, you can't compete with slavery, and the jobs on the plantation you have to pay a white man to do it, but why, when you can get a slave to do it for free. And the white man fell for it. He fought a war to maintain white power, but where in fact just killing and dieing to maintain someone elses power and property; Tim Wise's words to discribe this was, "Now that's deep." He said it is a "trick played on the white man."

Is this the same thing happening today to the white man, I say far more than ever before. What is america doing now in iraq, who's interest are the soldiers dieing for. In the same lecture Tim proved that discrimination in hiring was a fact proven by a research done by MIT and the university of chicago. They used typical african american names like Shakequa and Jerome and typical white names on resumes to find out who would be employed first/more, a blakc person or white. The answer was that people with white sounding names where 50% more likely to get hired than the black sounding names, infact, having a white name was just as likely to get you in the door for an interview as a resume with a black name with 8 years of additional experience. WOW!!!

What that means is that, and this was shown as well by a research done by Andrew Gremmer, 240 billion dollars are lost from the economy because of this; that is so mush money - Time Wise pointed this out - that if you spent $200,000 every single day, since jesus was born you still would not have spent as much yet. That is 240 billion dollars the elite get to keep. That is what happens when people are payed less than they are worth. Don't you understand what that means, let me illustrate. When the economy goes bad people spend less, the more money people have the more they buy. Business close down when things go bad, if there where more people to spend more money then not only the existing mom and pop stores would make a profit (not just walmart - the devil) but other mom and pop stores could open up as well; maybe you could have your own business and not work for someone else. I lived in St. louis when TWA laid off hundreds of flight attendants and ramp workers and pilots, and do you know one of those flight attendants ( white person), when faced with loosing her pention and not being able to pay for her house and send her daughter to school, she simply killed herself.

This is what happens when you capitulate with evil in the hope of self advancement, all you become is a slave; this is entmoot, tolkien fans all, so I can put it another way. Say you are going along with sauron because he promises you a fifdom and titles. As soon as all his other enemies were dead, he would come for you, for evil shares power with no one; only one can wear the ring.

Do you know what ugenics is, the same thing is happening to white people everyday. We are fighting the wrong enemy, it is not ourselves, it is the bushes, rockefellers and the rothchilds of the world. Until we learn that, none of us, black or white, are going to be free.

PS. I hate the boondocks, makes me sick to my stomach; too much negativity.

[Grey_Wolf]

......

[The Telcontarion]

I think your post grey wolf is very offensive and false and does not address any of the points I brought up.

The majority of the tribes in africa did not fight each other anymore than the tribes and clans of europe, greece, india and the middle-east did. To suggest this behavior originated in africa and that we are inherently ghetto people who kill each other is extremely hateful.

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

I think your post grey wolf is very offensive and false and does not address any of the points I brought up.

The majority of the tribes in africa did not fight each other anymore than the tribes and clans of europe, greece, india and the middle-east did. To suggest this behavior originated in africa and that we are inherently ghetto people who kill each other is extremely hateful.

I am sorry, Telcontarion. I guess I didn't really make myself clear.

You are, of course, correct in that tribal warfare did not originate in Africa. It exists all over the world.

I apologise again if I caused you to believe that I was in any way hateful towards citizens of the ghetto.

I have as a token of peace erased my post.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

I am sorry, Telcontarion. I guess I didn't really make myself clear.

You are, of course, correct in that tribal warfare did not originate in Africa. It exists all over the world.

I apologise again if I caused you to believe that I was in any way hateful towards citizens of the ghetto.

I have as a token of peace erased my post.

I wish not to judge you my friend, apology accepted and thank you.