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Old 12-14-2002, 09:57 AM   #1
Artanis
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The Lay of Leithian - Release from bondage

The typescript of this poem bears the title:

The GEST of BEREN son of BARAHIR
and LUTHIEN the FAY
called TINUVIEL the NIGHTINGALE
or the LAY OF LEITHIAN
Release from Bondage

And the question is, what do you imagine the last line "Release from Bondage" is referring to?

JRRT never gave an explicit answer to this question, but the poem itself suggests different answers.

What do you think?
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Old 12-14-2002, 10:16 AM   #2
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Any chance of posting the poem for us lazy folk? I have a Silmarillion, what chapter is it in? Or where is it?
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Old 12-14-2002, 10:54 AM   #3
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The lay is refered to in LoTR and Sil, Part of the Sil Cahpter on Beren is drawn from it. It is in HoME vol3 in a few (unfinished) versions. I consider it the very SOUL of the ME creation. And no in cannot be posted here, it is many pages.
I consider the Bondage to be the Obligagtion of the quest for the Silmaril and the delivery of it as the Bride's piece, which would be ironic as the conclusion (and thus the release) of the Lay had not been written.
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Old 12-14-2002, 11:12 AM   #4
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I see. The bondage then could be the pledge Beren made to Luthien's father to get the Silmaril? That was a very cruel stipulation wasn't it!
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Old 12-14-2002, 03:24 PM   #5
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Yeah, but it can mean other things as well. Luthien's release from her father's tree prison, the release of those from Sauron's fallen tower, or Beren's release from emotional apathy - when he meets Luthien, Beren's first escape from the kitchens (or am I thinking of BoLT here?), the release of the silmaril from Morgoth's crown, etc. There are many themes of bondage within the lay, to choose from. But overall, it's probably the release of Beren from his obligation to attain a silmaril. Poor Beren.
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Old 12-14-2002, 04:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
The lay is refered to in LoTR and Sil, Part of the Sil Cahpter on Beren is drawn from it. It is in HoME vol3 in a few (unfinished) versions. I consider it the very SOUL of the ME creation.
Isn't it sad JRRT never finished this poem? After reading the poem, the story given in the published Silmarillion seems a bit poor.
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There are many themes of bondage within the lay, to choose from. But overall, it's probably the release of Beren from his obligation to attain a silmaril.
Beside the themes you mentioned I think of Beren's release from dumbness and awe before Thingol's throne, and Luthien releasing the nature from the grip of winter by her singing.
And yes, the escape from the kitchen is from BoLT.
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Old 12-15-2002, 03:07 AM   #7
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The Bondage is Luthiens'. She was as an 'immortal' bound to the World. Thus she would be seperated from Beren at his death. When she was graced with the privilege of being allowed to choose the doom of Men she was released from the bondage of 'immortal' life.
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Old 12-15-2002, 03:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artanis
And yes, the escape from the kitchen is from BoLT.
Why can't I escape from my kitchen The dishes need to be done ...

Interesting topic - I wish I had BoLT 3. How about also Beren's release from death to go back and be with Lúthien for a bit? I think probably though that it's Lúthien's release from the bounds of the world to be with Beren, a mortal who will leave the world when he dies.

I love Beren's response to Thingol when he hears Thingol's condition for marrying Lúthien.
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Last edited by Rían : 12-15-2002 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 12-15-2002, 05:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tar-Elenion
The Bondage is Luthiens'. She was as an 'immortal' bound to the World. Thus she would be seperated from Beren at his death. When she was graced with the privilege of being allowed to choose the doom of Men she was released from the bondage of 'immortal' life.
This is also my interpretation. Beautiful, isn't it?
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Originally posted by RÃ*an
Interesting topic - I wish I had BoLT 3.
Here's a 'teaser' for you :

"A night there was when winter died;
then all alone she sang and cried
and danced until the dawn of spring,
and chanted some wild magic thing
that stirred him, till it sudden broke
the bonds that held him, and he woke
to madness sweet and brave despair.
He flung his arms to the night air,
and out he danced, unheeding, fleet,
enchanted, with enchanted feet.
He sped towards the hillock green,
the lissom limbs, the dancing sheen;
he leapt upon the grassy hill
his arms with loveliness to fill:
his arms were empty, and she fled;
away, away her white feet sped.
But as she went he swiftly came
and called her with her tender name
of nightingales in elvish tongue,
that all the woods now sudden rung:
'Tinuviel! Tinuviel!'
And clear his voice was as a bell;
its echoes wove a binding spell:
'Tinuviel! Tinuviel!'
His voice such love and longing filled
one moment stood she, fear was stilled;
one moment only; like a flame
he leaped towards her as she stayed
and caught and kissed that elfin maid.

As love there woke in sweet surprise
the starlight trembled in her eyes.
A! Luthien! A! Luthien!
more fair than any child of Men;
O! loveliest maid of Elfinesse,
what madness does thee now possess!
A! lissom limbs and shadowy hair
and chaplets of white snowdrops there;
O! starry diadem and white
pale hands beneath the pale moonlight!
She left his arms and slipped away
just as the breaking of the day."

(And I suppose you mean HoME 3 )
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Last edited by Artanis : 12-16-2002 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 12-15-2002, 05:33 AM   #10
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I have been thinking along the same lines as Tar-Elenion. I think the bondage was the bondage of the World, in which suffering abounds.
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Old 12-15-2002, 05:50 AM   #11
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I agree with Nolendil. Tar-Elenion has best described the bondage referred to.
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Old 12-15-2002, 10:50 AM   #12
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I say it is when Luthien gets out from under that idiot dad's thumb and blows that tree house.
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Old 12-15-2002, 11:19 AM   #13
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I would highly recommend this to anyone who likes the verses of Tolkien. The Lay also touches on other Sil stories as well. Here are some bits from Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth.

In that vast shadow once of yore
Fingolfin stood: his sheild he bore
with field of heaven's blue and star
of crystal shining pale afar.
In overmastering wrath and hate
desperate he smote upon that gate.
the gnomish king, there standing lone
while endless fortresses of stone
engulfed the thin clear ringing keen
of silver horn on baldric green.
His hopeless challenge dauntless cried
Fingolfin there: "come open wide
dark king your ghastly brazen doors!
Come forth, whom earth and heaven abhors!
Come forth O monstrous craven lord,
and fight with thine own hand and sword
thou foe of gods and elvish race!
I wait thee here. Come show thy face!"


Then Morgoth came. for the last time
In those great wars he dared to climb
from subterranean throne profound,
the rumour of his feet a sound
of rumbling earthquake underground.
Black armoured, towering, iron crowned
he issued forth; his mighty shield
a vast unblazoned sable field
with shadow like a thundercloud;
o'er the gleaming king it bowed
as huge aloft like mace he hurled
that hammer of the underworld.

Thrice was Fingolfin with great blows
to his knees beaten, thrice he rose
still leaping up beneath the cloud
aloft to hold star shining, proud,
his stricken shield, his sundered helm,
that dark nor might could overwhelm
till all the earth was burst and rent
in pits about him. He was spent.
His feet stumbled. He fell to wreck
upon the ground, and on his neck
a foot like rooted hills was set,
he was crushed - not conquered yet
One last desperate stroke he gave:
the mighty foot pale Ringil clave.

Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 12-15-2002 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 12-15-2002, 11:50 AM   #14
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I agree that it could be the bondage of the world. It could also be the bondage of being alone, i.e., bondage to oneself.

ALONE, adj. In bad company.

In contact, lo! the flint and steel,
By spark and flame, the thought reveal
That he the metal, she the stone,
Had cherished secretly alone.

-- Ambrose Bierce The Devil's Dictionary, ca. 1911
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Thus one should consider: "Being angry with another person, what can you do to him? Can you destroy his virtue and his other good qualities? Have you not come to your present state by your own actions, and will also go hence according to your own actions? Anger towards another is just as if someone wishing to hit another person takes hold of glowing coals, or a heated iron-rod, or of excrement. And, in the same way, if the other person is angry with you, what can he do to you? Can he destroy your virtue and your other good qualities? He too has come to his present state by his own actions and will go hence according to his own actions. Like an unaccepted gift or like a handful of dirt thrown against the wind, his anger will fall back on his own head."
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Old 12-15-2002, 04:58 PM   #15
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I highly recommend the lays of beleiand for anyone who likes tolkien. The Lay of Leithan is perhaps my favorite of all tolkien's works.
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Old 12-15-2002, 06:27 PM   #16
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Thanks, artanis and squinteyedsoutherner - those are really lovely! I was going to get PoME next, now I'm not sure....

(yes, I meant HoME 3 )
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I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?*

"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks!

Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked!

Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus!
Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!
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Old 12-15-2002, 06:30 PM   #17
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What does "Leithian" mean?
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I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?*

"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks!

Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked!

Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus!
Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!
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Old 12-15-2002, 07:02 PM   #18
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I believe it is actually spelled "Leithien". Leithien = "release from bondage".
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Old 12-16-2002, 06:40 PM   #19
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The title reads 'Leithian'.
Isn't Leithien a later emendation?
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Old 12-16-2002, 08:02 PM   #20
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Probably. Check the Lord of the Rings, Book I, "A Knife in the Dark". I have a hunch it will say "Leithien" there, but maybe I'm wrong.
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