Would Sam have left Rose?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-12-2003, 09:53 PM

What do you think - Would Sam have left Rose, if he'd been able to go across the Sea with Frodo?

Elvellyn · 03-12-2003, 10:23 PM

Nope. As much as Sam loved Frodo, I think he loved Rosie more.

Lanelf · 03-12-2003, 10:31 PM

Sam would so have gone with Frodo!No question. I mean, Rosie was all very nice, but he didn't stay home for her during the Quest, did he? Hmm?
Lanelf.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-12-2003, 10:48 PM

No, but wasn't there this little thing of a Wizard telling him to go, so as to keep him quiet?

When he says, "And I can't come" when he realizes Frodo's going over the Sea, that really makes me wonder if he'd go to Tol Eressea with Frodo.

cassiopeia · 03-12-2003, 10:52 PM

I don't think he would. He loved Frodo and Rosie (must be careful here

) but in different ways. I don't think he loved Rosie more, actually I don't think you can say you love someone 'more'.

It was not his time to leave the Shire. He had to make sure the Shire was rebuilt. Sam didn't actually cross the sea until Rosie died, so I think he realised that he couldn't leave her. Anyway, he had to finish off the Red Book.

I wonder what Frodo and Sam's reunion would be like, and when they chose to die.

Silverleaf · 03-12-2003, 10:59 PM

I think he would have LOVED to go with Frodo,but as much as he did I think he would have wanted to stay with Rosie

after all he had to stay and have his 12 kids and name one frodo

Pimpernel · 03-12-2003, 11:05 PM

didnt sam get to go to the havens when he became old because he refused the temptation of the ring in mordor...
if he had been asked to go when frodo went though, i dont think he would have gone...

cassiopeia · 03-12-2003, 11:17 PM

I believe Sam was able to cross the sea because he bore the Ring for a short time.

Coney · 03-12-2003, 11:21 PM

I've no doubt that Sam loved Rose and Frodo......but I think he loved the Shire even more.

Even at the most dangerous point for the Fellowship (in Lorien, after escaping Moria)......he would have braved the mountains and thousands of Orcs to return to his Shire after catching a glimpse of the future in Galadriels Mirror.

Only when he saw the Shire restored did he feel content enough to leave for the sea.

Artanis · 03-13-2003, 03:24 AM

I don't think Sam would have gone with Frodo, for several reasons. As you have already said, he had things to finish before he could go: Writing his book, help to restore the Shire, and marry Rose and bring up their children. He loved the Shire and had great joy in living there. Sam followed Frodo when Rose had died, and all that he had to do in life was done.

Elf Girl · 03-13-2003, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silverleaf

after all he had to stay and have his 12 kids and name one frodo

13 kids.

FrodoFriend · 03-13-2003, 08:46 AM

I think he would have gone if Frodo had asked him, but otherwise not.

Silverleaf · 03-13-2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl

13 kids.

opps sorry ok 13 >.<

***Jonathan*** · 03-13-2003, 03:02 PM

I don't think Tolkien would have created a hobbit who could even consider leaving his wife and kid (he had only one child at that time).
No, Sam would not have gone with Frodo. He wanted to be in the Shire with Rose and get many, many children

***azalea*** · 03-13-2003, 03:36 PM

To put it differently, I don't think it would have been asked of him. I don't think Sam would have left Rosie, but if he had been told it was time for him to go, it would be hard to refuse. I think that's why he wasn't given the choice then, although he was later allowed to go.
Re: the earlier leaving -- Sam says that Rose hadn't wanted him to go, but since he hadn't spoken to her about his feelings for her, it wasn't her place to ask him to stay. If there had been an obligation there, would he have gone? Would Gandalf have even asked him to go? I think he would have gone if he had been asked, but I think of course that it was meant to play out as it did.

durin's bane · 03-13-2003, 06:51 PM

I don't think he would've. As much as he was fond of Frodo, he knew he had to replenish the Shire and he also was married and he and Rosie were going to bring up a family. It might've been different if the Scourning of the Shire didn't happen (without it, there wouldn't be a Shire to try and grow back, and he wouldn't have fell in love with Rosie more, which wouldn't lead to marriage) Sam loved Frodo, but I think he knew his duty rested in the Shire.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-13-2003, 06:55 PM

Sam was already in love with Rose before the Scouring, I doubt it had any impact on his feelings for her.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 03-13-2003, 07:29 PM

Eventhough, Sam eventually passed over seas, Frodo may have already died by that time. Mortals in the Undying lands lives were sped up, and death came sooner than it would have in mortal lands.

Coney · 03-13-2003, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Eventhough, Sam eventually passed over seas, Frodo may have already died by that time. Mortals in the Undying lands lives were sped up, and death came sooner than it would have in mortal lands.

I never knew that......

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-13-2003, 07:38 PM

o.O I didn't know that. But I did think that Frodo would probably have died by the time Sam go there.

03-12-2003, 09:53 PM	#1
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Would Sam have left Rose? What do you think - Would Sam have left Rose, if he'd been able to go across the Sea with Frodo? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-12-2003, 10:23 PM	#2
Elvellyn The Redneck Elf Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In a house Posts: 539	Nope. As much as Sam loved Frodo, I think he loved Rosie more. __________________ Oliphants make great pets.

03-12-2003, 10:31 PM	#3
Lanelf Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Second Drawer Down Posts: 407	Sam would so have gone with Frodo!No question. I mean, Rosie was all very nice, but he didn't stay home for her during the Quest, did he? Hmm? Lanelf. __________________ Hey, I'm back! resounding silence You didn't even notice I was gone, did you? Well, I'm back now anyway. Artemis Fowl must find Mulch Diggums! You'll never shut down the real Napster

03-12-2003, 10:48 PM	#4
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	No, but wasn't there this little thing of a Wizard telling him to go, so as to keep him quiet? When he says, "And I can't come" when he realizes Frodo's going over the Sea, that really makes me wonder if he'd go to Tol Eressea with Frodo. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-12-2003, 10:52 PM	#5
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I don't think he would. He loved Frodo and Rosie (must be careful here ) but in different ways. I don't think he loved Rosie more, actually I don't think you can say you love someone 'more'. It was not his time to leave the Shire. He had to make sure the Shire was rebuilt. Sam didn't actually cross the sea until Rosie died, so I think he realised that he couldn't leave her. Anyway, he had to finish off the Red Book. I wonder what Frodo and Sam's reunion would be like, and when they chose to die. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

03-12-2003, 11:05 PM	#7
Pimpernel Enting Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: small town in NY...not where I wanna be.. Posts: 57	didnt sam get to go to the havens when he became old because he refused the temptation of the ring in mordor... if he had been asked to go when frodo went though, i dont think he would have gone... __________________ And this is what I have said, so you shall shut up if you are opposed for I am Iluvatar and you must obey me..for I know all that is, was, and will be and you don't!! HAH just kidding, I only wish I was Eru...power is good..except I would get corrupted so know...and why am I writing all of this randomness that's popping into my head that you don't give a rat's tail about.....??

03-12-2003, 11:17 PM	#8
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I believe Sam was able to cross the sea because he bore the Ring for a short time. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

03-12-2003, 11:21 PM	#9
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	I've no doubt that Sam loved Rose and Frodo......but I think he loved the Shire even more. Even at the most dangerous point for the Fellowship (in Lorien, after escaping Moria)......he would have braved the mountains and thousands of Orcs to return to his Shire after catching a glimpse of the future in Galadriels Mirror. Only when he saw the Shire restored did he feel content enough to leave for the sea. __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica

03-13-2003, 03:24 AM	#10
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	I don't think Sam would have gone with Frodo, for several reasons. As you have already said, he had things to finish before he could go: Writing his book, help to restore the Shire, and marry Rose and bring up their children. He loved the Shire and had great joy in living there. Sam followed Frodo when Rose had died, and all that he had to do in life was done. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

03-13-2003, 08:46 AM	#12
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	I think he would have gone if Frodo had asked him, but otherwise not. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-13-2003, 03:02 PM	#14
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	I don't think Tolkien would have created a hobbit who could even consider leaving his wife and kid (he had only one child at that time). No, Sam would not have gone with Frodo. He wanted to be in the Shire with Rose and get many, many children __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

03-13-2003, 03:36 PM	#15
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	To put it differently, I don't think it would have been asked of him. I don't think Sam would have left Rosie, but if he had been told it was time for him to go, it would be hard to refuse. I think that's why he wasn't given the choice then, although he was later allowed to go. Re: the earlier leaving -- Sam says that Rose hadn't wanted him to go, but since he hadn't spoken to her about his feelings for her, it wasn't her place to ask him to stay. If there had been an obligation there, would he have gone? Would Gandalf have even asked him to go? I think he would have gone if he had been asked, but I think of course that it was meant to play out as it did.

03-13-2003, 06:51 PM	#16
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	I don't think he would've. As much as he was fond of Frodo, he knew he had to replenish the Shire and he also was married and he and Rosie were going to bring up a family. It might've been different if the Scourning of the Shire didn't happen (without it, there wouldn't be a Shire to try and grow back, and he wouldn't have fell in love with Rosie more, which wouldn't lead to marriage) Sam loved Frodo, but I think he knew his duty rested in the Shire. __________________ Yada, yada, yada

03-13-2003, 06:55 PM	#17
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Sam was already in love with Rose before the Scouring, I doubt it had any impact on his feelings for her. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-13-2003, 07:29 PM	#18
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Eventhough, Sam eventually passed over seas, Frodo may have already died by that time. Mortals in the Undying lands lives were sped up, and death came sooner than it would have in mortal lands. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-13-2003, 07:38 PM	#20
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	o.O I didn't know that. But I did think that Frodo would probably have died by the time Sam go there. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What All Was Wrong with PJ's LOTR	Wally	Lord of the Rings Movies	425	08-14-2016 08:43 AM
Chapter VIII and IX: The Scouring of the Shire and The Grey Havens	Nurvingiel	LOTR Discussion Project	35	12-24-2007 07:12 AM
Lord of the Rings Discussion Project. Chapters II & III	Telcontar_Dunedain	LOTR Discussion Project	24	12-13-2007 07:52 PM
LotR Discussion Project. Book Four. Chapters 1 and 2.	Telcontar_Dunedain	LOTR Discussion Project	18	10-25-2005 10:22 AM
LoTR Discussion project; Book II Chapters 9 and 10	BeardofPants	LOTR Discussion Project	31	02-05-2005 07:52 AM