Feanor and the Silmarils

Do you think Feanor made the right choice in leaving Valinor for Middle Earth? I think he had the right to leave, but certainly didn't have the right to do the Kinslaying. Of course, had he not come to Middle Earth, the whole LotR story wouldn't have happened. (Forgive me if I've gotten my facts wrong, I'm pulling them from memory, as my copy of the Sil has vanished )

If you want to look at things from moral perspective, of course he made the wrong choice! But then, as you say, we wouldn't have a story...

In terms of an interesting book his leaving was necessary. Evil must always be present and prevail in certain points in a story for it to be intersting (sounds kinda harsh, but just think about it, it's true). However, if we were to think about this as a factual account he obviously made the wrong choice. Morgoth (or Melkor, whatever) had put untrue thoughts in his mind, and he chose to accept them, as did many of the other elves. This, IMO, is Tolkien's version of Original Sin, Melkor being the satanic/serpent figure, and Feanor being the Adam or Eve. Because of this "Original Sin" his whole race was doomed to suffer, and was seperated, in a way, from their gods, just as in the Bible when Adam and Eve were cast out of Paradise and estranged somewhat from God until the Saviour came. Don't take this as a religious post, it is a known fact that Tolkien based his writting largely on the Bible, this is ment as a factual literary analysis, not a religious statement.

Have no fear Tater, you don't have to justify your posts here..... BTW, I thought that was a nice analogy....good work

Yes, very interesting. Well, I'm afraid that I personally detest Feanor. You may go on for ages about how subtle and artistic and intelligent he was, but to be frank, he was a jerk. I had to make 3 tries to get through the Silmarillion just because I couldn't stand to read about Feanor. I find the parts of the Silmarillion that many see as exhilarating or fascinating, pretentious and disgusting. So just from that perspective, you could say Tolkien made a mistake by including this proud, violent, and vindictive elf. But when I finally did get past that hump and read the rest of the stories, I felt a great sense of contrast, and could appreciate the depth of Fingon's friendship for Maedhros, the elves' contentions and relationships, the final relief when the Silmarils are lost, and the hurtful cleansing of the world over time from the pain of Morgoth. I still wish Feanor had been easier to stomach, but his story is necessary to the saga of Middle Earth. As far as leaving Aman, it was his choice, and although so many of his despicable actions were related to this choice, the actual departure wasn't really bad. I think that if he had just left, alone, by the ice route, after Morgoth stole the Sils, everything would have been fine. No oath (at least not for his sons), no kinslaying, no abandoning family and burning boats, and a whole lot less war! Of course it was these choices that led to the presence of elves in ME in the third age, but that doesn't justify his actions. There's a big difference in actions being necessary to the story--and being right!

Good analogy Tater! I´d like to add my 2 cents: i see the light of the Valinorean Trees as an image of the Grace. Before the "original sin" elfs live in Grace. The death of the trees and the robbing of the Silmarils mark the beginning of a new status quo: the fallen nature. The restoring of the light of the silmarils by Earendil is the image of the final status: the new hope for the fallen and the restoring of the way back to "Grace-land".

Very true Fat middle. You have basically stated why I beleive Feanor was necessary. Until his "original sin" the elves seemed so high and mighty, almost perfect. He illustrated that even the great can fall, or fallen nature as you said.

Not just great but the greatest. Unlike Elanor, I don't hate Feanor. In a way I feel regret for him. He had the most potential to do great things among the Noldor and instead he threw all that away to wage a hopeless war and, in the process, managed to drag the greater part of his people down with him. He was the one with the farthest to fall, and he did.

Pardon my for getting picky, but Melkor had the farthest to fall (Lucifer), but Feanor had the farthest to fall among the children of Iluvatar (Adam).

Sorry I wasn't specific enough; that's what I meant. Feanor, of all the Noldor, had the farthest to fall.

I guess I shouldn't have said I detest Feanor. You're right about his potential, and I don't really hate him, but feel intense regret for his character and antipathy towards most of his attitudes and actions. I also really don't like the idea of a "tragic hero", and most of them are not very admirable to me. In my religion we have a very different view of the Fall, that it brought not "original sin", but corruptibility and reproduction, which were necessary to the plan of salvation. Otherwise we would not be able to exist on Earth or progress through troubles as we must, so the Fall was a good thing. So I see fewer parallels to Feanor's story which was just one big mistake, although Tolkien very well may have intended some likeness. He has said, "I dislike allegory whenever I smell it", and I generally try to avoid looking for allegories in his stories because of that (although some are too prominent to deny), but it is a fairly close parallel in some ways.

I´ve always thought that quote of Tolkien was a way for marking distances with the work of his friend C.S. Lewis. Lewis was a religion apologist. He has many apologetic (sorry, i don´t know if that word also mean "defence" in English) essays and i think that the true meaning of his phantasy books (which are very allegoric) can only be understand under an apologetic background. The religion apologists were very frequent in Tolkien´s times and tolkien himself was very close to the tradition of John Henry Newman, perhaps the first huge modern apologist. But i think that he didn´t like to be an apologist as a literary author, and he wanted to make differences between his works and those others. That´s why, i think, he said that of allegories, but nobody can say that the his books aren´t someway a mirror of the greatest human affairs. Hmmm, this has sounded too serious. I need a :P to end.

Fat middle, taht's exactly what the word means. Elanor, that's very interesting. In a sense his fall was a good thing, since it did bring the Noldor to Middle Earth. However, you're right, your way of looking at it has many less parallel's.

I wouldn't say Feanor is a tragic hero. Anti-hero is more like it...

I feel that the Oath of Feanor and the Doom of the Noldor are two of the most dramatic scenes in the Silmarillion. I use them for the beginning in my section on the Silmarillion, just to set the mood. Totally off topic, but what are the "rules" for adding quotes here? I find that they differ from place to place and do not want to make any mistakes.

Rules for adding quotes? Maybe I don't understand you correctly, but I have no problem with you quoting anything You can put anything from the books here, we're not going to tell the copyright police

Unless you misquote...Then we'll getcha!

Good luck. I haven't misquoted Tolkien for at least a year. Another thought on this topic is that the return of the Noldor was necissary for a couple of reasons, including a lot of the teaching of the Edain, for the Noldor had more knowledge that the Sindar and the Avari did not. Also it was through this that the elvish strain was introduced into the Dunedain (see Letters by J.R.R. Tolkien)

The Silmarils are extremely beautiful in and of themselves, but are perilous when in the posession of any beings within Arda. I just don't think that one is supposed to be able to bottle the Light of "heaven" and posess it, as is evident throughout the histories of the Simarillion. Peril follows in the footsteps of these beautiful and hallowed jewels. Feanor shaped them from the Light of the Two Trees, something that nobody had ever done, not even the Valar, and when they asked for the Silmarils back in order to destroy them and restore the Trees, he was driven to a madness that could not be overcome, the madness of the Creator who is on the verge of losing his "children" forever. He is also being asked for them by the Valar, the "gods" who it has been rumored amongst some of the Noldor are holding the Eldar in thralldom and keeping them from branching out into the world and making a paradise that would rival or surpass Valinor, itself. If only Feanor had realized that, although the Silmarils were the emobiment of beauty, the Two Trees surpassed them by leaps and bounds and were the lifeblood of Arda, and that the best work of his creation would have been the sacrifice of the Silmarils for the remaking of the Trees which are now forever lost. But Feanor was driven mad by the lies that Melkor planted amongst the Noldor, and feanor ended up resembling Melkor when he made the tragic oath: "'...we will never turn back from pursuit. After Morgoth to the ends of the Earth! War shall he have and hatred undying. But when we have conquered and have regained the Silmarils, then we and we alone shall be Lords of the unsullied Light, and masters of the bliss and beauty of Arda. No other race shall oust us!' ...[Then] They swore an oath... even by the name of Iluvatar, calling the everlasting dark upon them if they kept it not. And Manwe they named in witness, and Varda... vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the World Vala, demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn, or any creature... that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmarilfrom their posession." Feanor, it could be argued is the elves version of Melkor, although not quite as evil, for he was in the end a servant of Melkor rather than his own master, much like Sauron in later days.

That quote is one of the most dramatic moments in the Silmarillion. In full it is: Then Feanor swore a terrible oath. His seven sons leapt straightaway to his side and took the selfsame vow together, and red as blood shone their drawn swords in the glare of the torches. They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take, by even the name of Iluvatar, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them if they kept it not; and Manwe they named in witness, and Varda, and the hallowed mountain of Taniquetil, vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn, or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from their possession. Thus spoke Maedhros and Maglor and Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir, Amrod and Amras, princes of the Noldor; and many quailed to hear the dread words. For so sworn, good or evil, an oath may not be broken, and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end. Also, it was not so much Feanor that became the worker of evil, though yes he did cause much evil such as the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, but his sons. For the doom of the Noldor drove them all: Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the moutains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Disposessed shall they be forever. Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Ea, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken. His sons did many evil deeds of their own, such as the slaying of Dior in his own halls. Also I would say that the Doom of the Noldor encompased the Silmarils themselves, as the dwarven murder of Thingol shows.