Immortality question?

[afro-elf]

I have a question, if the option for immortality becomes available through bio-technology would you attempt to prevent it being used?

E.g.Some people are against cloning and protest against it to prevent it from being used on their own personal moral grounds.

Or would you support it?

[jerseydevil]

It sounds too much like the movie "Disturbing Behavior".

I think people should be themselves and I think it would depend on if this "immorality" thing was forced on people and whose morality was going to be the standard. As we know through these threads - everyone has their own thoughts on what is immoral.

[brownjenkins]

it would certainly put an interesting twist on the whole religion/afterlife thing... would it even matter to people anymore?

JD brings up an interesting point too about it being forced on people... these days most cultures seem to be opposed to euthanasia unless it is absolutely necessary... would we force everyone to live forever if we could? and if not, when do we draw the line and say, okay, you're old enough now to give up life if you want to

and what about life in prison?

i heard a program on npr today with two people discussing the concerns of prolonging life too long (say twice it's current length)... it would certainly change our culture quite a bit... i would assume people might have less children and the idea of being married forever would probably be pretty rare... nothing against true love and all, but eternity is an awfully long time

[katya]

I would be against it. If everyone became immortal, I think we'd get (even more) overpopulated pretty quick. Would this be like elves where you could die if someone/thing killed you? Would this be like a perpetual health? (otherwise there's a lot of things you wold just die from (accident, sickness...). Anyway, I would certainly not want to be immortal myself (unless I could die when I felt like it...which would probably be at the normal human age, maybe more if I had something to do). It sound horrible! You wouldn't be able to make any attachments. Everyone would die (unless they too were immortal) and everything would pass eventually. I think I would be like my English teacher. She act like everything is just as it has always been- life goes in predictable pattern. (If you knew her eyou'd understand). Anyway, I don't know if I could call it immoral, (though it does seem to go against teh whole design of life, if such a thing exists) but it doesn't sound like a good idea, if only because of the population thing and nothing else.

[Ruinel]

To be immortal (not immoral )... I suppose it depends on what sort of life one would lead. If you are saying that one could stop aging at like 30 or something, then I'd say that sounds good. But if you are saying like... you look like say, 70 and you are actually never going to die.. then I'd have to say put me out of my misery.

There's more to life than just being alive... there's quality of life as well.

However, I do believe that it would change our culture considerably.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
To be immortal (not immoral )

Man - now I have to change it - when I just reread it - I saw that it was immorTALITY not immoral. Forget my disturbing behavior link and all that - it's not valid to the discuss. There is the movie "Death Becomes Her" which sort of addresses this question. The original ending would have been much better but the test audiences didn't like it.

They had them in paris on a balcony discussing what they should do now, go to london, rome, tokyo, etc. And they kept saying - no, we already did that, nope already did that, as the screen went black. That was a much better ending than them falling down the church stairs and shattering into pieces.

Now the question I was answering - if we could scientifically do something about immoral behavior through technology - should we? Maybe Afro-Elf should start a thread on that if he wants. he can just copy my answer above.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - I'm not feeling well I guess.

[Insidious Rex]

We arleady are immortal. Your DNA has been cycling through the ages passed carefully from body to body with "tender loving" care. Not to mention every atom in your body has been recycled over and over again since before the earth was even formed. you could now be sharing atoms with a dinosaur that walked the earth millions of years ago and also with a long dead star that blew up billions of light years and eons and eons ago. how much more imortal do you want then that?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
We arleady are immortal. Your DNA has been cycling through the ages passed carefully from body to body with "tender loving" care. Not to mention every atom in your body has been recycled over and over again since before the earth was even formed. you could now be sharing atoms with a dinosaur that walked the earth millions of years ago and also with a long dead star that blew up billions of light years and eons and eons ago. how much more imortal do you want then that?

We are all star dust.

[Rían]

Does anyone remember that old black-and-white movie (from a book, I think, but I haven't read it) "The Picture of Dorian Gray"? Really creepy! The picture got older, and he stayed young - but the picture also reflected his character, which got worse and worse ...

I hope you feel better, JD - it's not the flu, is it?

ps - we're already immortal but the earth isn't.

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
and what about life in prison?

That reminds me of that Twilight Zone episode where the guy sells his soul to the Devil for immortality and is figuring out different ways to "kill" himself. He jumps out in front of a subway train and stuff like that and then he wants to try the electric chair, so he "accidentally" kills his wife. Instead of the chair, he gets life in prison. Great twist. Anyway...

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
We arleady are immortal. Your DNA has been cycling through the ages passed carefully from body to body with "tender loving" care. Not to mention every atom in your body has been recycled over and over again since before the earth was even formed. you could now be sharing atoms with a dinosaur that walked the earth millions of years ago and also with a long dead star that blew up billions of light years and eons and eons ago. how much more imortal do you want then that?

Similar to the I will live on in my children response.



Well, gaze upon my quote. ( the latter part)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Khamûl
That reminds me of that Twilight Zone episode where the guy sells his soul to the Devil for immortality and is figuring out different ways to "kill" himself. He jumps out in front of a subway train and stuff like that and then he wants to try the electric chair, so he "accidentally" kills his wife. Instead of the chair, he gets life in prison. Great twist. Anyway...

I remember that episode. But actually it wasn't me that he sold his soul to - just my assistant.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Ruinel
We are all star dust.
_______________________________

Or as Bill and Ted once told an old Greek guy "All we are is dust in the wind."


Actually, there is an interesting moral angle. If a very long life, or virtual immortality had been possible a century ago then presumably most people alive today wouldn't have been born (no room). So if say, a Numenorean triple, productive life-span suddenly became available, would it be unethical to use it since future generations would not be born in return for a present generation's life extension? The ethical problem there seeming, to me, having an echo in a sci-fi TV short story of quite a while back (maybe based on an Ursula Lagune work???) where a society decided that at a given age those reaching it would die, but when the original generation that enacted the rule reached that age there was a revolt to stop the law. (Sort of an ultimate "me generation" attitude).

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
how much more imortal do you want then that?

I'm not interested in that kind of immortal, thank you When I want to talk to IRex, I want to talk to IRex - not IRex's atoms dispersed throughout the universe, which will not be able to talk to me anyway; or IRex's kids, who are NOT IRex.

[Artanis]

It's hard to imagine an immortal life, even if we could keep our youth. Wouldn't we get awfully fed up with the world. There is a limit to what there is to experience, a limit to the challenges.

I think we would need a Melkor to keep up the spirits.

[Anglorfin]

Personally I have nothing against it morally. I would be concerned though for the state of the earth. I think I'd let it happen if I knew there was some garuantee that we could preserve our current habitat's ecosystem. Or if we become able to expand our territory to a planetary level at least. Either way something should be set up that would ensure our continuous and unending expansion if we were to become immortal.

Anyway, as it stands right now I would be against it.

[afro-elf]

Maybe I need to clarify. If the option became availiable would you "stand in the way" of those who wanted it?

[brownjenkins]

good point afro... i think if you wanted to stand in the way, you'd have an awfully hard time... look how so many today will go to enormous lengths just to extend their lives for a year or so

i think if the technology became available it would be used, irregardless of the consequences... which, per usual human behavior, would be dealt with much later

[Wayfarer]

Does anyone remember that old black-and-white movie (from a book, I think, but I haven't read it) "The Picture of Dorian Gray"? Really creepy! The picture got older, and he stayed young - but the picture also reflected his character, which got worse and worse...

The book was by Oscar Wilde. A very thought provoking piece, to be sure.
"All art is at once surface and symbol.
Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril.
Those who read the symbol do so at their peril."

I'm also reminded of a more recent work- I believe it was 'Cabinet of Curiousities' by Douglas and Preston. In it, a mad scientist creates an immortality serum and uses it to extend his life while he plans to destroy the human race. The conclusion at the end is ironic- that if he had simply released his serum to the public, humanity would have destroyed itself.

Hmm... On the subject matter, I do not think rue immortality is scientifically possible. I don't think humanity in its current state is capable of lasting forever. However, I would gladly extend my life for a number of centuries, perhaps a millennium or two.

I do like to joke that one of the things I'd like to do before I get old is invent a cure for aging.

[The Gaffer]

It's probably more likely to happen that way around, I'd guess (i.e. slowed ageing before immortality).

As for literary explorations, does anyone remember the Roald Dahl story about a scientist who invents a brain bucket to keep himself alive when his body is killed by pancreatic cancer?

The twist in the tale, of course, is exactly that: he ends up as a brain in a bucket, with one eye floating on the surface where he watches impotently as his wife torments him by blowing cigarette smoke into it.