Nazgul questions

ArwenEvenstar · 11-12-2001, 06:13 PM

I know a little about the Nazgul. But would really really like to know more about them. Such as What part of ME did they all come from? Did they all have names- if so what are they?If all of the White council (excluding Sauraman da traitor...) take em out??

Just curious

Ñólendil · 11-12-2001, 06:22 PM

I'm pretty sure this has been brought up before, but I'll try anyway.

I don't think I understand your last question.

At least three of the Nazgul were Dúnedain from the South of Gondor (I don't remember where). I think the Witchking was one of these. One was an Easterling, he is the only one that is named ('Khamûl the Shadow of the East') and was the second greatest of the Nine. Quite probably they all had names, but we only know of one. Iron Crown Enterprizes made up names and bios for the Nine for their Middle-earth Role-playing game, some like to use those.

Kirinki54 · 11-13-2001, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Quite probably they all had names, but we only know of one.

I have always pictured Gothmog as a Nazgul, but now I am getting uncertain. Was he an 'ordinary' Man? Or even Orc? He could have been second-in-command at Minas Morgul anyway.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-13-2001, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirinki54

I have always pictured Gothmog as a Nazgul, but now I am getting uncertain. Was he an 'ordinary' Man? Or even Orc? He could have been second-in-command at Minas Morgul anyway.

Gothmog was Lord of Balrogs, called in the Silmarillion, High Captain of Angband.

Elenhin · 11-13-2001, 11:35 AM

There are two different Gothmogs: the Balrog-Lord in the First Age, and the one who took command of Sauron's forces in the Battle of the Fields of Pelennor after the Witch-King had been slain by Eowyn. We are never told what the later Gothmog actually was: some like to think of him as a Nazgul, some like to think of him (or perhaps her: we're never told that either, I think) as a Man. There is also a possibility of him being an Orc, but I don't think that an Orc would be given such a responsibility.

easterlinge · 11-13-2001, 10:00 PM

BUt would an Orc necessarily be an awful commander?

Wayfarer · 11-13-2001, 10:21 PM

I don't think they'd nescessarily be all bad. There were some good elvish leaders, after all. But, like in america, tehy wouldn't be encouraged.

Ñólendil · 11-14-2001, 01:17 AM

Orcs are good enough leaders when put in charge of their own people, or Trolls maybe, but I wouldn't trust one with Men. Ugluk was captain of the Orcs of Isengard and Grishnakh of the Orcs of Barad-dur, but Saruman ruled in Orthanc and the Lieutenant of the Black Tower was the Mouth of Sauron.

Agburanar · 11-16-2001, 09:32 AM

Wasn't Gothmog the Balrog in the Sil and Rogrog the troll captain in LotR? I.C.E.'s Middle Earth CCG had names for the Nazgul. They were:

The Witch King of Angmar (mentioned by Tolkien)
Khamul the Easterling (mentioned by Tolkien)
Ren the Unclean (invented)
Uvatha the horseman (invented)
Akhorahil the seer (invented)
Adunaphel (invented)
Indur (invented)

I can't remember the other two. Of course they could have been called Boris, Fred, Tom, Harry, Robert, Norbert, Homer, Margaret and the Witch King! (Sounds like the title of a fan fiction!)

afro-elf · 11-16-2001, 09:56 AM

what was the ICE name of the female nazgul?

Ñólendil · 11-16-2001, 07:34 PM

J. R. R. Tolkien did not give any name for 'the troll captain'. Do you mean the Troll-chief that Pippin slew? Is 'Rogrog' a name from ICE?

Wayfarer · 11-17-2001, 06:03 PM

Afro elf...

Adunaphel the silent was supposed to be a chick, if my memory serves me. (Which it almost always does)

Agburanar · 12-04-2001, 09:55 AM

Yeah, Rogrog is probably I.C.E. Can anyone tell me where Khamul comes from? I can't find him (her???) anywhere but it's not an I.C.E. name.

Wayfarer · 12-04-2001, 05:19 PM

Khamul the easterling... I believe it talks about him in 'of rings of power and the third age' and perhaps in the appendices.

Ñólendil · 12-04-2001, 05:45 PM

I think the name is only to be found in Unfinished Tales, The Hunt For The Ring. He is called there 'Khamûl the Shadow of the East' and is said to be the second greatest of the Ringwraiths. It was him that narrowly missed the Ringbearer at Bag-end, and called to his friend on the bank of the Stockbrook (if I remember aright which brook it was). He was of the Nine the most weakened by sunlight.

Bacchus · 12-04-2001, 11:52 PM

I thought he was the one most incapacitated by water. According to UT, he was quite aware that the Ring was escaping across the Brandywine, but unable to enter the River to do anything about it.

Agburanar · 12-05-2001, 10:01 AM

Really? That's really interesting, I mus read the UT sometime.

Wayfarer · 12-05-2001, 01:43 PM

Light or Water...?

Maybe both?

Ace · 12-06-2001, 06:35 AM

i had started a thread about the ICE card game, that got like no reponses. GRR! And it seems like many know about it, but anyway, i agree that ICE takes great liberties with inventing up Tolkein information. In Middle Earth the Dragons (the first expansion set) Smaug gets alot of company, ranging from Worms Tolkien mentioned to invented ones like Earcaraxe the Water Dragon. I still say ICE was cool, and it's a shame they're bankrupt.

"If the choice be mine, I say we march!"

Agburanar · 12-06-2001, 10:32 AM

Yeah ICE were great. The only other person I know who collects The Wizard's CCG is my next door neighbour, spooky!

11-12-2001, 06:13 PM	#1
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	Nazgul questions I know a little about the Nazgul. But would really really like to know more about them. Such as What part of ME did they all come from? Did they all have names- if so what are they?If all of the White council (excluding Sauraman da traitor...) take em out?? Just curious __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination!

11-12-2001, 06:22 PM	#2
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I'm pretty sure this has been brought up before, but I'll try anyway. I don't think I understand your last question. At least three of the Nazgul were Dúnedain from the South of Gondor (I don't remember where). I think the Witchking was one of these. One was an Easterling, he is the only one that is named ('Khamûl the Shadow of the East') and was the second greatest of the Nine. Quite probably they all had names, but we only know of one. Iron Crown Enterprizes made up names and bios for the Nine for their Middle-earth Role-playing game, some like to use those. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-13-2001, 10:21 PM	#7
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I don't think they'd nescessarily be all bad. There were some good elvish leaders, after all. But, like in america, tehy wouldn't be encouraged. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

11-14-2001, 01:17 AM	#8
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Orcs are good enough leaders when put in charge of their own people, or Trolls maybe, but I wouldn't trust one with Men. Ugluk was captain of the Orcs of Isengard and Grishnakh of the Orcs of Barad-dur, but Saruman ruled in Orthanc and the Lieutenant of the Black Tower was the Mouth of Sauron. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-16-2001, 09:56 AM	#10
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	what was the ICE name of the female nazgul? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

11-13-2001, 11:35 AM	#5
Elenhin Sapling Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 4	There are two different Gothmogs: the Balrog-Lord in the First Age, and the one who took command of Sauron's forces in the Battle of the Fields of Pelennor after the Witch-King had been slain by Eowyn. We are never told what the later Gothmog actually was: some like to think of him as a Nazgul, some like to think of him (or perhaps her: we're never told that either, I think) as a Man. There is also a possibility of him being an Orc, but I don't think that an Orc would be given such a responsibility.

11-13-2001, 10:00 PM	#6
easterlinge Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Farthest Khand, the darkest East... Posts: 442	BUt would an Orc necessarily be an awful commander?

11-16-2001, 09:32 AM	#9
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Wasn't Gothmog the Balrog in the Sil and Rogrog the troll captain in LotR? I.C.E.'s Middle Earth CCG had names for the Nazgul. They were: The Witch King of Angmar (mentioned by Tolkien) Khamul the Easterling (mentioned by Tolkien) Ren the Unclean (invented) Uvatha the horseman (invented) Akhorahil the seer (invented) Adunaphel (invented) Indur (invented) I can't remember the other two. Of course they could have been called Boris, Fred, Tom, Harry, Robert, Norbert, Homer, Margaret and the Witch King! (Sounds like the title of a fan fiction!)

11-16-2001, 07:34 PM	#11
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	J. R. R. Tolkien did not give any name for 'the troll captain'. Do you mean the Troll-chief that Pippin slew? Is 'Rogrog' a name from ICE? __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-17-2001, 06:03 PM	#12
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Afro elf... Adunaphel the silent was supposed to be a chick, if my memory serves me. (Which it almost always does) __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 11-17-2001 at 06:14 PM.

12-04-2001, 09:55 AM	#13
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Yeah, Rogrog is probably I.C.E. Can anyone tell me where Khamul comes from? I can't find him (her???) anywhere but it's not an I.C.E. name.

12-04-2001, 05:19 PM	#14
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Khamul the easterling... I believe it talks about him in 'of rings of power and the third age' and perhaps in the appendices. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-04-2001, 05:45 PM	#15
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I think the name is only to be found in Unfinished Tales, The Hunt For The Ring. He is called there 'Khamûl the Shadow of the East' and is said to be the second greatest of the Ringwraiths. It was him that narrowly missed the Ringbearer at Bag-end, and called to his friend on the bank of the Stockbrook (if I remember aright which brook it was). He was of the Nine the most weakened by sunlight. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-04-2001, 11:52 PM	#16
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	I thought he was the one most incapacitated by water. According to UT, he was quite aware that the Ring was escaping across the Brandywine, but unable to enter the River to do anything about it. __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again. Last edited by Bacchus : 12-04-2001 at 11:53 PM.

12-05-2001, 10:01 AM	#17
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Really? That's really interesting, I mus read the UT sometime.

12-05-2001, 01:43 PM	#18
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Light or Water...? Maybe both? __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-06-2001, 06:35 AM	#19
Ace Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Long Island Posts: 20	i had started a thread about the ICE card game, that got like no reponses. GRR! And it seems like many know about it, but anyway, i agree that ICE takes great liberties with inventing up Tolkein information. In Middle Earth the Dragons (the first expansion set) Smaug gets alot of company, ranging from Worms Tolkien mentioned to invented ones like Earcaraxe the Water Dragon. I still say ICE was cool, and it's a shame they're bankrupt. "If the choice be mine, I say we march!"

12-06-2001, 10:32 AM	#20
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Yeah ICE were great. The only other person I know who collects The Wizard's CCG is my next door neighbour, spooky!

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