Fantasy or Reality

samwise909 · 10-10-2002, 02:42 PM

Ask yourself fellow tolkienologist is this a world he created or is this feat so enormous and substantial that this is a world he just recorded on paper. I am Samwise Gamgee loyal follower of my master and I believe. Ask your self this :

"Do you Believe?"

Discuss this and give opinions. Any Q's please ask, I will support my stand on this issue if requested of me.

-Sam-

Banazir · 10-10-2002, 03:36 PM

You know what's really funny? I'm also Samwise Gamgee, and I also believe that this story was a reality.

So unless you're joking and this topic was only started for light discussion, we've got a bit of a problem here, claiming to be the same person... Oh well.

Wayfarer · 10-10-2002, 03:47 PM

You both fail to note whether you mean a secondary or primary reality.

samwise909 · 10-10-2002, 04:03 PM

I see the books to be a historical text littered with creative detail based on fact and understanding on the behalf of Mr. Tolkien.
I believe that this place did exist in the expanse of time and I, with hope and help, wish to find fact and truth that would positively connect our with the world in Tolkien's books.
If any of you are up to the job and are ready to do this I am looking for 8 more companions to seek out the truth.

leave your email add. on your reply and I will contact you.

-Sam-

johnnyrod · 10-10-2002, 04:24 PM

I've got a flux capacitor somewhere in the attic if it helps.

Banazir · 10-10-2002, 05:38 PM

Samwise,

I've been "up to the job" for nearly 6 years now, and found some interesting facts myself. However, I can't decide whether you are serious or not in your suggestion to search for the truth.
If you like, e-mail me at banazir32@freemail.ru

I doubt that you will be able to find as many as eight people to assist you, but heck, stranger things have happened.

osszie · 10-10-2002, 05:44 PM

Well, I don't know if your going to find a "real" ME (if ya do send me a one-way ticket

) but you are gonna encounter some very good mythology along the way

Have fun!!

I would have loaned you a my TARDIS to make your endeavours easier, but it's in for repairs at the mo'

webwizard333 · 10-10-2002, 09:51 PM

No, I don't believe. Have fun on your search, even though you'll never find Middle Earth or any proof of its existence other than in the imaginations of J.R.R. Tolkien and the books.

Silje · 10-11-2002, 04:40 PM

You can't proove that Tolkien did invent Middle Earth since he always clamed he just discovered it

So there is a chance that he didn't!
Count me in

siljeslunde@spray.no

Khadrane · 10-12-2002, 12:02 AM

Uhhh... no. As much as I like Tolkien, and as much as I pretend to believe, when it comes down to it, I know it's just a story.

Lanelf · 10-12-2002, 03:45 AM

I am not Samwise Gamgee. I am his girlfriend

.
I'm not entirely sure if I believe but I'm still looking for the plothole that can get me to the Shire!

No luck so far...

Anyone else found one???
And Wayfarer - call me an idiot, but what is a primary or secondary reality?

Lanelf.

Getchan · 10-12-2002, 05:36 AM

I shall join thee on thy quest ,Samwise 909 . You shall have my sword! E-mail at getchan2002@yahoo.com

Spock · 10-12-2002, 06:53 AM

The story of Helen of Troy was thought a story until the 20th century when they found the ruins of Troy.
Middle Earth is a world out of prehistory. With hypnotic regressions and "Bridie Murphy's" so prevelant these days, what's not to believe?

-------All that wander are not lost............

Sminty_Smeagol · 10-12-2002, 07:03 AM

If I am incorrect, the story of Troy was told by people atleast sort of nearer the time it happened. Mythology is generally (in my opinion) based on fact. Old tales from the past. But Middle-Earth was just created near a hundred years ago; not passed down from storyteller to storyteller as are stories of great events from the past. Middle-Earth was a mythology one guy dreamed up... nobody told him about it. And, if nobody told him about it, are you suggesting Tolkien is psychic or something? That;'s ridiculous.

Ñólendil · 10-13-2002, 12:03 AM

And I'd just like to say that I am Goosegoose, Chief-goose of Bree, Screamer-At-Scary-Horses, and I believe.

The Lady of Ithilien · 10-13-2002, 09:03 AM

Quote:

The story of Helen of Troy was thought a story until the 20th century when they found the ruins of Troy.

As much as one hesitates to contradict Mr. Spock on a matter of logic, it is important to point out that they never found the ruins of Helen.

Her beauty is still with us today. Science and fantasy/imagination will always walk side by side. That's human nature, I guess. Without wonder, we are mere machines (as Dr. McCoy would point out more pithily); worse, we are Morgoth.

It is perhaps contributory to this topic to point out the inscription on the grave stone of Mr. and Mrs. J.R.R. Tolkien:

Quote:

Edith Mary Tolkien, Luthien (1881 - 1971). John Ronald Reuel Tolkien, Beren (1892 - 1973)

See bottom image at http://www.cabed-en-aras.com/jrrpics.html

Is that fantasy or reality?

***Rían*** · 10-13-2002, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Lady of Ithilien
As much as one hesitates to contradict Mr. Spock on a matter of logic, it is important to point out that they never found the ruins of Helen.

LOL!

And as for the gravestones, your question "is that fantasy or reality?" IMHO, it's beautiful!

sun-star · 10-14-2002, 03:52 PM

I think LOTR is all the better for being fantasy - in reality, it might not be as nice as you think. Otherwise why wasn't everyone in ME happy all the time?

Lanelf · 10-14-2002, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Getchan
I shall join thee on thy quest ,Samwise 909 . You shall have my sword!

And my lightsaber!

Lanelf.

The Lady of Ithilien · 10-14-2002, 10:03 PM

Quote:

IMHO, it's beautiful!

Yes.

So is Edith, in the image on that same page (well, the photo does accentuate her nose somewhat, but have noticed that on other pictures/movies of stylish women at that time and into the 20s -- maybe it was trendy - sigh. I was born 50-some years too late).

Anyway, I haven't read up on it in a while, but remember reading that she had been betrothed to someone else when JRRT sought her (and maybe her family wasn't too crazy about him, though am not sure on that point) and he went away unhappy, but she let the other guy go and chose JRRT. Rich fertile ground for tales of lovers struggles, that.

There are so many wonderful images people have made of Luthien on the Web that I've seen, and surely there must be many more in books and other collections. Who would have thought to have found her truest likeness in a photograph?

10-10-2002, 02:42 PM	#1
samwise909 Sapling Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: shores of the west Posts: 10	Fantasy or Reality Ask yourself fellow tolkienologist is this a world he created or is this feat so enormous and substantial that this is a world he just recorded on paper. I am Samwise Gamgee loyal follower of my master and I believe. Ask your self this : "Do you Believe?" Discuss this and give opinions. Any Q's please ask, I will support my stand on this issue if requested of me. -Sam-

10-10-2002, 03:36 PM	#2
Banazir Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 40	You know what's really funny? I'm also Samwise Gamgee, and I also believe that this story was a reality. So unless you're joking and this topic was only started for light discussion, we've got a bit of a problem here, claiming to be the same person... Oh well. __________________ "...I love him, whether or no".

10-10-2002, 03:47 PM	#3
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	You both fail to note whether you mean a secondary or primary reality. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

10-10-2002, 04:03 PM	#4
samwise909 Sapling Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: shores of the west Posts: 10	Reality I see the books to be a historical text littered with creative detail based on fact and understanding on the behalf of Mr. Tolkien. I believe that this place did exist in the expanse of time and I, with hope and help, wish to find fact and truth that would positively connect our with the world in Tolkien's books. If any of you are up to the job and are ready to do this I am looking for 8 more companions to seek out the truth. leave your email add. on your reply and I will contact you. -Sam-

10-10-2002, 04:24 PM	#5
johnnyrod Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Scunthorpe, UK Posts: 166	I've got a flux capacitor somewhere in the attic if it helps. __________________ Frodo Lives!

10-10-2002, 05:38 PM	#6
Banazir Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 40	Samwise, I've been "up to the job" for nearly 6 years now, and found some interesting facts myself. However, I can't decide whether you are serious or not in your suggestion to search for the truth. If you like, e-mail me at banazir32@freemail.ru I doubt that you will be able to find as many as eight people to assist you, but heck, stranger things have happened. __________________ "...I love him, whether or no".

10-10-2002, 05:44 PM	#7
osszie Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 409	Well, I don't know if your going to find a "real" ME (if ya do send me a one-way ticket ) but you are gonna encounter some very good mythology along the way Have fun!! I would have loaned you a my TARDIS to make your endeavours easier, but it's in for repairs at the mo'

10-10-2002, 09:51 PM	#8
webwizard333 Elf Lord Join Date: May 2001 Location: myob Posts: 587	No, I don't believe. Have fun on your search, even though you'll never find Middle Earth or any proof of its existence other than in the imaginations of J.R.R. Tolkien and the books. __________________ Boo!

10-11-2002, 04:40 PM	#9
Silje Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22	I believe You can't proove that Tolkien did invent Middle Earth since he always clamed he just discovered it So there is a chance that he didn't! Count me in siljeslunde@spray.no

10-12-2002, 12:02 AM	#10
Khadrane Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle Earth (I wish) Posts: 670	Uhhh... no. As much as I like Tolkien, and as much as I pretend to believe, when it comes down to it, I know it's just a story. __________________ Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE

10-12-2002, 03:45 AM	#11
Lanelf Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Second Drawer Down Posts: 407	I am not Samwise Gamgee. I am his girlfriend. I'm not entirely sure if I believe but I'm still looking for the plothole that can get me to the Shire! No luck so far...Anyone else found one??? And Wayfarer - call me an idiot, but what is a primary or secondary reality? Lanelf. __________________ Hey, I'm back! resounding silence You didn't even notice I was gone, did you? Well, I'm back now anyway. Artemis Fowl must find Mulch Diggums! You'll never shut down the real Napster

10-12-2002, 05:36 AM	#12
Getchan Hobbit Join Date: May 2002 Location: near the Mouths of Sirion Posts: 31	I shall join thee on thy quest ,Samwise 909 . You shall have my sword! E-mail at getchan2002@yahoo.com __________________ "But I will sit and hearken, and be glad that through you great beauty has been wakened into song."

10-12-2002, 06:53 AM	#13
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	The story of Helen of Troy was thought a story until the 20th century when they found the ruins of Troy. Middle Earth is a world out of prehistory. With hypnotic regressions and "Bridie Murphy's" so prevelant these days, what's not to believe? -------All that wander are not lost............ __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

10-12-2002, 07:03 AM	#14
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	If I am incorrect, the story of Troy was told by people atleast sort of nearer the time it happened. Mythology is generally (in my opinion) based on fact. Old tales from the past. But Middle-Earth was just created near a hundred years ago; not passed down from storyteller to storyteller as are stories of great events from the past. Middle-Earth was a mythology one guy dreamed up... nobody told him about it. And, if nobody told him about it, are you suggesting Tolkien is psychic or something? That;'s ridiculous.

10-13-2002, 12:03 AM	#15
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	And I'd just like to say that I am Goosegoose, Chief-goose of Bree, Screamer-At-Scary-Horses, and I believe. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

10-14-2002, 03:52 PM	#18
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I think LOTR is all the better for being fantasy - in reality, it might not be as nice as you think. Otherwise why wasn't everyone in ME happy all the time? __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

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