what if the other rings were destroyed?

Sween · 09-05-2002, 05:56 AM

what would of the effect been if all the other rings of power had been gotten rid of? would the one ring still have as much power? i read an artical by martin martinez saying that the elf lords could not bring themselves to destoy there rings when they were camped on mount doom.

Caleb · 09-05-2002, 06:26 PM

Thats a very interesting Question. I think the one would have lost a chunk of its power. But thats just me.

GandalfTheWhite · 09-05-2002, 07:25 PM

i dont think it would have lost any of the powers sauron gave it, i just dont think it would be able to control them any more because they are non existent

entss89 · 09-05-2002, 07:48 PM

well once again i agree with gandalf the white i really dont think it would have effected it because it is the one ring powerful by its self no one elses ring. but im not that sure so i would get a couple more answers. bye.

Artanis · 09-06-2002, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sween
i read an artical by martin martinez saying that the elf lords could not bring themselves to destoy there rings when they were camped on mount doom.

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but what incident is this, at what time?

And why should they destroy their rings? The three rings given to the Elves were not sullied by Sauron. I believe the Elves were able to use the power of their rings to heal and preserve, at least after the One Ring was lost.

I think the One Ring had its power in itself, that its power was not dependent of the other rings. But if the other rings were destroyed at an early stage, Sauron would have lost the opportunity for this time to gain dominion over the Men, Elves and Dwarves who had been given them as gifts.

Gilrond · 09-06-2002, 04:40 PM

I do not think the One Ring would be effected if the Three Rings were unmade, because they were forged by Celebrimbor of Hollin, and so were not tainted by Sauron's evil.

I do not think they were controlled by the One, because the Elves used them to preserve and heal all things; so no, I do not think that Isildur's Bane would be effected, for its power lies in itself, in the Dark Lord's strength.
That is my opinion, anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Anar kaluva tielyanna!

Spock · 09-07-2002, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
Sorry if this sounds stupid, but what incident is this, at what time? And why should they destroy their rings? The three rings given to the Elves were not sullied by Sauron. I believe the Elves were able to use the power of their rings to heal and preserve, at least after the One Ring was lost.

I think the One Ring had its power in itself, that its power was not dependent of the other rings. But if the other rings were destroyed at an early stage, Sauron would have lost the opportunity for this time to gain dominion over the Men, Elves and Dwarves who had been given them as gifts.

OH MY WE'RE GETTING REALLY THOUGHTFUL AND ACCURATE ANSWERS HERE. I'LL HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND REST. THANKS FOR THIS UPLIFTING EXPERIENCE.

Erawyn · 09-07-2002, 07:49 PM

I don't think it would have lost any of its power, or at least Sauron would have been just as powerful with it, except if the other rings (not just the elvish ones) had been destroyed, there wouldn't have been any wraiths. I have a vague sort of question about the dwarvish rings though, you don't (at least in LOTR) ever hear about them, what did the dwarves use them for? and why weren't they corrupted like men were? Do dwarves not have the same desire for power?

Artanis · 09-08-2002, 05:58 AM

No, Dwarves were tougher than Men, and they wanted wealth rather than power. The Sil says:

Quote:

The dwarves indeed proved tough and hard to tame; they ill endure the domination of others, and the thoughts of their hearts are hard to fathom, nor can they be turned to shadows. They used their rings only for the fetting of wealth; but wrath and an overmastering greed of gold were kindled in their hearts, of which evil enough after came to the profit of Sauron.

If I remember right, all the seven rings given to the dwarves were either destroyed or Sauron took them back. This is said somewhere in one of the books, unfortunately I don't remember where.

Rána Eressëa · 09-08-2002, 04:46 PM

Sauron did recover all but one Dwarven ring.

Findegil · 09-09-2002, 06:50 AM

In the council of Elrond Gandalf said that Sauron get 3 of the 7 Rings of the Dwarves back and that the other 4 were consumed by dragon-fire. Were he got that knowledge from is not revealed, but a hint is also seen in Glóin's account of the message from Mordor. It promised 3 Rings which the Dwarves had possessed once in exchange for Bilbo's Ring.

Respectfully
Findegil

Rána Eressëa · 09-09-2002, 04:10 PM

Which page was that on? I looked through the chapter but couldn't find anything about the Dwarven Rings save the last one Sauron recovered.

Artanis · 09-09-2002, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Findegil
In the council of Elrond Gandalf said that Sauron get 3 of the 7 Rings of the Dwarves back and that the other 4 were consumed by dragon-fire.

Which leads to the question: Could the One Ring also have been destroyed by a dragon's fire?

Rána Eressëa · 09-09-2002, 04:28 PM

I just passed through the Council of Elrond. Gandalf says only this:

Quote:

`Some, Galdor,' said Gandalf, `would think the tidings of Glóin, and the pursuit of Frodo, proof enough that the halfling's trove is a thing of great worth to the Enemy. Yet it is a ring. What then? The Nine the Nazgûl keep. The Seven are taken or destroyed.' At this Glóin stirred, but did not speak. `The Three we know of. What then is this one that he desires so much?

Later Glóin and Gandalf say...

Quote:

'Still it might be well for all,' said Glóin the Dwarf, 'if all these strengths were joined, and the powers of each were used in league. Other rings there may be, less treacherous, that might be used in our need. The Seven are lost to us – if Balin has not found the ring of Thrór which was the last; naught has been heard of it since Thrór perished in Moria. Indeed I may now reveal that it was partly in hope to find that ring that Balin went away.'
`Balin will find no ring in Moria,' said Gandalf. `Thrór gave it to Thráin his son, but not Thráin to Thorin. It was taken with torment from Thráin in the dungeons of Dol Guldur. I came too late.'

And as for dragon's fire: the other rings were not as powerful nor were they made in Mt. Doom - the One Ring is extremely powerful, so Sauron made it where it could not be destroyed but in the place it was made: Mt. Doom. Therefore the other rings could be destroyed by other means - all save the One.

BeardofPants · 09-09-2002, 06:15 PM

As far as I recall, it doesn't say anything about the number of dwarven rings destroyed, etc, in LOTR, but in "Letters", Tolkien theorises that some were destroyed/eaten by dragons (I forget the number he speculated, but I think it was 3 or 4 that were destroyed.) I think, in the end, he surmised that Sauron recovered maybe 3 dwarven rings?

Rána Eressëa · 09-09-2002, 07:16 PM

So it seems.

Findegil · 09-11-2002, 07:21 AM

Oh! Sorry I have confused the chapters where you find the information. In "The shadow of the past" Gandalf speaks about the numbers of dwarf-rings consumed by dragon fire (not eaten by dragons - what a ridicules idea). He also says their that the One Ring couldn't be destroyed by any dragon even not Ancalagon the Black.

Respectfully
Findegil

Artanis · 09-11-2002, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Findegil
He also says their that the One Ring couldn't be destroyed by any dragon even not Ancalagon the Black.

Thank you, Findegil.

Quote:

In "The shadow of the past" Gandalf speaks about the numbers of dwarf-rings consumed by dragon fire

3 were recovered by Sauron, 4 were consumed by dragons.

Nilvasaien · 09-11-2002, 03:36 PM

From Book II, Chapter II, "The Council of Elrond":

"Find it, and three rings that the Dwarf-sires possessed of old shall be returned to you..."

From Book I, Chapter II, "The Shadow of the Past":

"It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough; nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself."

Rána Eressëa · 09-11-2002, 04:16 PM

Ah...okay. Gotcha.

09-05-2002, 05:56 AM	#1
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	what if the other rings were destroyed? what would of the effect been if all the other rings of power had been gotten rid of? would the one ring still have as much power? i read an artical by martin martinez saying that the elf lords could not bring themselves to destoy there rings when they were camped on mount doom. __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

09-05-2002, 06:26 PM	#2
Caleb Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I'll never tell. Posts: 37	Thats a very interesting Question. I think the one would have lost a chunk of its power. But thats just me. __________________ -Caleb

09-05-2002, 07:25 PM	#3
GandalfTheWhite Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 297	i dont think it would have lost any of the powers sauron gave it, i just dont think it would be able to control them any more because they are non existent __________________ "Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council." -Gandalf The Road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, And I must follow, if I can, Pursuing it with eager feet, Until it joins some larger way Where many paths and errands meet. And whither then? I cannot say. "He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom." -Gandalf "A thing is about to happen which has not happened since the Elder Days: the Ents are going to wake up and find that they are strong." -Gandalf

09-05-2002, 07:48 PM	#4
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	hi well once again i agree with gandalf the white i really dont think it would have effected it because it is the one ring powerful by its self no one elses ring. but im not that sure so i would get a couple more answers. bye. Last edited by entss89 : 09-07-2002 at 03:35 PM.

09-06-2002, 04:40 PM	#6
Gilrond Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 52	I'm not sure... I do not think the One Ring would be effected if the Three Rings were unmade, because they were forged by Celebrimbor of Hollin, and so were not tainted by Sauron's evil. I do not think they were controlled by the One, because the Elves used them to preserve and heal all things; so no, I do not think that Isildur's Bane would be effected, for its power lies in itself, in the Dark Lord's strength. That is my opinion, anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Anar kaluva tielyanna!

09-07-2002, 07:49 PM	#8
Erawyn Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: america junior Posts: 320	I don't think it would have lost any of its power, or at least Sauron would have been just as powerful with it, except if the other rings (not just the elvish ones) had been destroyed, there wouldn't have been any wraiths. I have a vague sort of question about the dwarvish rings though, you don't (at least in LOTR) ever hear about them, what did the dwarves use them for? and why weren't they corrupted like men were? Do dwarves not have the same desire for power? __________________ peace never hurt anyone "Be not so bigoted to any custom as to worship it at the expense of Truth." Johann Georg von Zimmermann

09-08-2002, 04:46 PM	#10
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	Sauron did recover all but one Dwarven ring. Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 09-08-2002 at 05:05 PM.

09-09-2002, 06:50 AM	#11
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	In the council of Elrond Gandalf said that Sauron get 3 of the 7 Rings of the Dwarves back and that the other 4 were consumed by dragon-fire. Were he got that knowledge from is not revealed, but a hint is also seen in Glóin's account of the message from Mordor. It promised 3 Rings which the Dwarves had possessed once in exchange for Bilbo's Ring. Respectfully Findegil

09-09-2002, 04:10 PM	#12
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	Which page was that on? I looked through the chapter but couldn't find anything about the Dwarven Rings save the last one Sauron recovered.

09-09-2002, 06:15 PM	#15
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	As far as I recall, it doesn't say anything about the number of dwarven rings destroyed, etc, in LOTR, but in "Letters", Tolkien theorises that some were destroyed/eaten by dragons (I forget the number he speculated, but I think it was 3 or 4 that were destroyed.) I think, in the end, he surmised that Sauron recovered maybe 3 dwarven rings? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

09-09-2002, 07:16 PM	#16
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	So it seems.

09-11-2002, 07:21 AM	#17
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	Oh! Sorry I have confused the chapters where you find the information. In "The shadow of the past" Gandalf speaks about the numbers of dwarf-rings consumed by dragon fire (not eaten by dragons - what a ridicules idea). He also says their that the One Ring couldn't be destroyed by any dragon even not Ancalagon the Black. Respectfully Findegil

09-11-2002, 03:36 PM	#19
Nilvasaien Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Either Erebor or Springfield Posts: 31	From Book II, Chapter II, "The Council of Elrond": "Find it, and three rings that the Dwarf-sires possessed of old shall be returned to you..." From Book I, Chapter II, "The Shadow of the Past": "It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough; nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself." __________________ "Somebody was bound to say it one day...I just never thought it would be her."

09-11-2002, 04:16 PM	#20
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	Ah...okay. Gotcha.

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