3018: Would Denethor have rejected Aragorn?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Denethor seems to have had hising fits regarding Aragorn from back when he was Thorongil.
From appandix a: "...he was as like to Thorongil as to one of nearest kin, and yet was ever placed second to the stranger in the hearts of men and the esteem of his father.....later, when all was made clear, many believed that Denethor, who was subtle in mind and looked further and deeper than other men of his day, had discovered who this stranger Thorongil in truth was, ans suspected that he and Mithrandir designed to supplant him."

And in "The Pyre of Denethor":
"With the left hand thou wouldst use me for a little while as a shield against Mordor, and with the right bring up this Ranger of the North to supplant me. But I say to thee, Gandalf Mithrandir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the House of Anarion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Isildur. I will nor bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity."

So, if Denethor had survived, and even directed the defense of Minas Tirith, would there have been a second kinstrife. Perhaps even a reconciliation with Faramir, and how might Faramir and Imrahil react? Might both try for some compromise?

[Valandil]

3019... and you already started a 'What if... Denethor survived' thread!

[Erkenbrand Of Rohan]

Denethor under the control of Sauron through the Palantir would have almost certainly rejected Aragorn, and probably would have wanted to begin another kinstrife, seeing as the last civil war almost proved fatal for Gondor.

Aragorn however, being wise in his own right, and with the wisdom of Gandalf beside him, would not start a second kinstrife.

In terms of support for Denethor, there are his men who had sworn oaths to him and as such would have no choice but to side with him. On the other hand, there is very little Denethor and his followers could do to deny Aragorn, considering the substantial proof to back up his claim, such as heirlooms and the records in Rivendell. Nobody could deny him. And if Denethor himself denied Aragorn, in my opinion, I feel that he would lose the majority of support, and I think that would go especially from Imrahil and maybe even Faramir. Apart from his guards, Denethor seemed to have little respect the citizens under his rule, and they were longing for the return of the King.

In the end, I think Denethor would simply be thrown out if he denied Aragorn.

[Elvellon]

Hmmm, do not forget; the line of Isildur had already been rejected before. Aragorn claim had as much validity as that of Arvedui, his ancestor, and he had been refused. Denethor knew it, and so did the other lords of Gondor. The Steward could simply point that Aragorn didn’t had a valid claim. I somewhat doubt the other lords could do much about it; since it was the very tradition of Gondor he was basing his decision.

[The Gaffer]

The key event, to my mind, is how Aragorn's claim is validated by the people themselves. There are a few lovely "folklore" type moments, the "hands of a healer" and "elfstone", as well as the powerful rumour mill that ran through Minas Tirith.

The way Aragorn handled his succession (camping outside the city, for example) implies that he would not have directly challenged Denethor. However, I don't think Denethor would have stood against the choice of his own people.

[Snowdog]

The alternative question here is .. what if Boromir and faramir's roles were reversed and Boromir was the Steward of Gondoir when Aragorn came. Would Boromir have proclaimed Aragorn King like Faramir did?

[Count Comfect]

I would tend to think Boromir would have done that. He had a strong sense of loyalty to tradition, and one of the greatest is that the "King will return." So he would probably have done as Faramir did.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Yet didn't Faramir recall Boromir saying

'How many hundreds of years needs it to make a steward king, if the king returns not?
to which Denethor replied
'Few years, maybe, in other places of less royalty. In Gondor ten thousand years would not sufface.'

This could suggest that before the time when Denethor became corrupted by Sauron in the palantir that he would accept the Return of the King with out protest whether he thought it right or not, and that if it had been Boromir that was Ruling Steward then he would have made claims against Aragorn right to the Throne of Gondor & Arnor. For he only openly acknowleged Aragorn as his King when he lying dying in the fields of Parth Galen. It was only Faramir that held no doubt that if the rightful King returned he should take up the throne and be held in reverance by all. Yet also Faramir was the only one not to be corrupted by Sauron or the Ring, for he said to Frodo & Sam near Ithilien that

'Not if I found it on the highway would I take it' which is a test that neither Denethor or Boromir would have passed. Also their desire for power was greater than that of Faramir who was happy to lean on the guidance of others eg. his father, Boromir and Gandalf, whereas Boromir & Denethor were independant, too much so perhaps, and did not ask ANYONE for help. For example when the fellowship councilled together on the night before leaving Rivendell and Boromirs only words were trying to find out what Frodo thought about their paths. And when they counciled again on Parth Galen Boromir was so quiet until Sam turn 'to beg for his pardon'.

Overall I think woth out the effects of the palantir or the Ring both Denethor & Boromir would have accepted but with their affects I'm not so sure but I think that Faramir defintly would have accepted Arargorn