PJ going against guidelines laid out by Tolkien??

[anduin]

I found this article at TOR.N. In the third column, second paragraph is says:

Factoid: Tolkien sold the movie rights to his work in 1971 and laid down strict guidelines for their use. None of his characters could be used in scenes that were not in his books.....

Isn't PJ going against those guildlines when he puts Arwen (just one example!) in scenes where she does not belong according to the book? And what of adding characters to the movie that never existed in Tolkien's books at all like Lurtz?

How were they able to get around these guidelines that were specified by Tolkien himself in case a movie was ever made?

[Fat middle]

AFAIK, the only confirmed extra scene with Arwen is the flight to the Ford. well, properly this scene is not an extra, but Arwen IS an extra in it Anyway i think it's not a major fault as far as they don't change any more Arwen's character (though this riskful scene is a good deal of a change )

the worst change for me is the confirmed impalement of Saruman. i think that was precissely what Tolkien was trying to avoid in that condition.

[Darth Tater]

Nice find anduin! Maybe if the movie really sucks the Tolkien Estate can use this against them

[jediguy]

I thought it was confirmed that the spikes were NOT for impaling Saruman, and that he dies some other way, besides that oh-so-cliche impalement.

[Darth Tater]

Sorry, no such happy news

[Mouth of Sauron]

Yeah, supposedly Saruman's death impaled on the spikes has been confirmed. Maybe PJ's just messing with our heads. I hope so. If you start pulling threads at random, you unravel the whole story. Cutting out Bombadil means no Barrow Downs, and killing Saruman off that way means no Scouring of the Shire, or at the very least a completely different version of that ending. Contemplating it makes me ill.

[AbacusTafai]

Wait... without the Barrow Downs, where do Pippin, Merry, and Sam get their swords from? And how will they explain the roasting of one of the swords in the killing of the Nazgul King (why it worked at all)? Bombadil is an entremely integeral part of the story. Why they are leaving it out is beyond me.

[Wayfarer]

I heard aragorn give them the barrow daggers. Although the barrow downs were important for more than that. That was the scene where frodo first showed his courage and resiliance, without it, him being able to survive teh morgul wound makes less sense.

[Ñólendil]

I once read Michael Martinez point out that Aragorn is going to look very stupid if he's wandering around Eriador with a broken sword while he's got four fine Númenórean blades handy.

But if you look at pics from the Weathertop scene, there's a whole heap of blades just lying on the ground (Aragorn's using one to fight a Ringwraith). I guess that's where the Hobbits get them.

As for the significance of the Barrow-blades (or Weather-blades?), it certainly seems as though it's being dropped considerably. In Mória Pippin and Merry leap on the Cave-troll's back and start stabbing away, but it has no effect on it, the thing just flings them off. I wonder how Pippin is expected to do anything in the battle before the Black Gate against those Hill-trolls.

But I've also heard that PJ has assured fans that people who want to believe the Old Forest and Barrow-down stuff happened will be able to. Will an expanse of time go by, and the Hobbits emerge suddenly with swords at their belts?

[AbacusTafai]

If that happens, so help me...

[Ñólendil]

It doesn't seem like fans can be pleased whatever the possibility, based on your post and others. If the latter scenario happens as I just said, it would be more in accord with the original story, but you feel it would hurt the movie (as a movie). If the Hobbits get their swords from Weathertop it won't be in accord with the original story (although not a problem as a movie). And if Aragorn gives them the swords in Bree neither (movie or book representation) will be served very well.

I think the best thing a Tolkien fan can do is to sit back, relax, and appreciate it as a movie. Or at least to try.

[thephantomcat]

I recently read an interview with PJ and he said that the story about Tolkien putting a clause was a myth. Also, Tom was rightfully cut from the movie. While his scene worked well in Tolkien's novel as far as pacing went, it would kill the flow of the movie. You people sound like you already hate the movie.

[samwise of the shire]

Darth Tater I'm under the impression you WANT the Lord Of The Rings to fail.
Well even though there may not be a Scouring of the Shire there WILL be a departure at the grey havens so I do think that there will be a Scouring even though Saruman might not be behind it, and it does'nt HAVE to be Saruman just like it does'nt HAVE to be Glorfindel leading the hobbits and Strider to Rivendell or it does'nt HAVE to be Gandalf that lights off his dragon firecracker(apparently it's Merry and Pippin that light it off which I find quite amusing and funny).
I think that even though jumping on the trolls back does'nt work at least they do something,I've read that passage quite a few imes and it does'nt mention Merry and Pippin doing anything so I'm glad they got their rears in gear sooner then T2T.
Sam
ps.Relax,if it does'nt go according to OUR plans then we dont need to pout about it.

[Ñólendil]

phantomcat, as a nit-picker it is my unfortunate duty to inform you that the Lord of the Rings is not a novel It's a heroic romance.

[anduin]

Inoldonil....you have been stuck on 666 posts this entire thread. Weird, eh?

[Ñólendil]

For those others of you who have not observed bmilder's explanation on another forum, anduin was here mistaken. She had me worked up though.

[Tessar]

ok but you all have to remember that there was the part in the barowdowns where tom sayed that bit about running naked upon the grass do you now see why they might want to leave that out?

[Captain Stern]

Samwise of the Shire, you think it doesn't HAVE to be Saruman behind the scouring of the Shire?!?!

Have you even read the book? Or did you just read "Of the Rings of Power" in the back of "The Silmarillion"?

[Amandil]

Who the (***********************) is Lurtz?

*Amandil clutches his head in his hands and moans*

[Comic Book Guy]

Lurtz is an new addition to the Lord of the Rings made by the creative writers of the new movies. He's the the first Uruk-hai breed by Saruman out of pods. He's going to be the orc that kills Boromir.