questions of population in the silmarillion

carlrodd · 02-11-2007, 11:25 PM

i just read the silmarillion again and realised that tolkien rarely ever gives insight into the population of certain races or important groups. here and there specific numbers are mentioned in battles, but never in regard to population. only ever does he make oblique references, such as 'a great host', or 'few remained', or 'countless' etc. does anyone know of any reference material in his or christopher tolkien's published works that specifically comments on population? also, i would be really interested in hearing anyone's personal theories and ideas concerning population. i have three questions of population that i am specifically interested in: the number of faithful that escaped the destruction of numenor. akalabeth says nine ships i think. that does not sound like a significant number of people. i know there were already numerous numenorean settlements in NW middle earth at the time, and the faithful being of royal lineage were probably rulers of lesser or mixed peoples. secondly, i wonder about the number of the last alliance of men and elves. akalabeth states that the last alliance was greater than any force that had been previously gathered, with the exception of when the valar joined with men and elves to vanquish morgoth. lastly, i wonder about the population of lothlorien during the 'great years'. any comments would be greatly appreciated.

brownjenkins · 02-12-2007, 12:42 AM

Good question!

I can't think of any real numbers being tossed out (other than the mustering of the Rohirrim in LotR, and I think that was under ten thousand), but you get the impression that it's tens of thousands, or maybe 100,000 tops battling in some of the wars of Beleriand.

On the escapees from Numenor, probably a few thousand. The last alliance may have been much more, considering the duration of the battle and all the construction they did afterwards, but even then, I'd have to guess maybe 300 to 500 thousand.

As for the vanquishing of Melkor being the "greatest force", I believe that may have been more in terms of power than numbers.

carlrodd · 02-12-2007, 08:31 AM

the interesting thing to me is that tolkien keeps referencing how few of the eldar remained after beleriand was broken. also, by the time of the last alliance, ost-in-edhil would have been no more. the only actual haven of noldor in middle-earth would have been lindon, with a few in rivendell. it always seemed so strange to me then that apparently so many were mustered for the war with sauron.

02-11-2007, 11:25 PM	#1
carlrodd Sapling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: delaware Posts: 14	questions of population in the silmarillion i just read the silmarillion again and realised that tolkien rarely ever gives insight into the population of certain races or important groups. here and there specific numbers are mentioned in battles, but never in regard to population. only ever does he make oblique references, such as 'a great host', or 'few remained', or 'countless' etc. does anyone know of any reference material in his or christopher tolkien's published works that specifically comments on population? also, i would be really interested in hearing anyone's personal theories and ideas concerning population. i have three questions of population that i am specifically interested in: the number of faithful that escaped the destruction of numenor. akalabeth says nine ships i think. that does not sound like a significant number of people. i know there were already numerous numenorean settlements in NW middle earth at the time, and the faithful being of royal lineage were probably rulers of lesser or mixed peoples. secondly, i wonder about the number of the last alliance of men and elves. akalabeth states that the last alliance was greater than any force that had been previously gathered, with the exception of when the valar joined with men and elves to vanquish morgoth. lastly, i wonder about the population of lothlorien during the 'great years'. any comments would be greatly appreciated.

02-12-2007, 12:42 AM	#2
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	Good question! I can't think of any real numbers being tossed out (other than the mustering of the Rohirrim in LotR, and I think that was under ten thousand), but you get the impression that it's tens of thousands, or maybe 100,000 tops battling in some of the wars of Beleriand. On the escapees from Numenor, probably a few thousand. The last alliance may have been much more, considering the duration of the battle and all the construction they did afterwards, but even then, I'd have to guess maybe 300 to 500 thousand. As for the vanquishing of Melkor being the "greatest force", I believe that may have been more in terms of power than numbers. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

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02-12-2007, 08:31 AM	#3
carlrodd Sapling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: delaware Posts: 14	the interesting thing to me is that tolkien keeps referencing how few of the eldar remained after beleriand was broken. also, by the time of the last alliance, ost-in-edhil would have been no more. the only actual haven of noldor in middle-earth would have been lindon, with a few in rivendell. it always seemed so strange to me then that apparently so many were mustered for the war with sauron.