Multi-culturalism boon or bane?

[afro-elf]

Do you think that multi-culturalism has been a good thing or have it divided us further?

[Insidious Rex]

Isnt "multi-cuturism" a given in every society? We are a constantly evolving lot. Theres no stoping that. Theres no resisting constant daily change. We just need to learn to ride the wave better as a collective. I mean what other alertantive do we have really? I think the real question is do we celebrate the variant cultural aspects of our current society or do we homoginize to the "white bread" (for lack of a better term) eveness that makes the majority most comfortable?

[afro-elf]

I was watching the daily show and they showed a segment with Lou Dobbs who made a statement that he felt that St. Patrick's day shouldn't be celebrated. The point he was attempting to make if I recall the rest of the segment was that Americans needed to focus on being American not Hyphenated people.

Or as Whoppee Goldberg once said I went to Africa and let me tell you I'm American.

If you live here should you speak the the language? Should we have an offical second language?( Spanish)


Under the after the fall of the Soviet Union ethnic pride has divided countries and ripped them apart. As an aside note after being in (The) Ukraine a couple of times the ethnic tension there did not flare up as many thought it would.


Is one's loyalty to their in-group or the nation. Can both be reconsiled?


If someone not of your in-group wish to participate in your culture greatly due you embrace them or say off limits.

An example Yzedi do not allow conversions to their faith or intermarriage.

Just random thoughts.

[Khamûl]

But everybody's Irish on St. Patrick's Day!

On a serious note, I feel that you should be proud of your heritage, but not to the point where it separates you from the rest of the country. Be proud to have Irish roots, but remember that you're American. I'm a Southerner, and proud of it, but I'm an American first. In general, I'm against hyphenation. I can see it applying to new immigrants, but if you're born here, you're just an American, plain and simple, no matter what your roots are. As long as you're not being oppressed, your allegiance is to your country.

And if you're in America, speak English, or at least try to learn. When I went to France, did I immediately speak to people in English? No, I spoke in French (until we realized that their English was better than my French ), but at least I tried.


It's been a long day. I hope I'm making sense.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by afro-elf

I was watching the daily show and they showed a segment with Lou Dobbs who made a statement that he felt that St. Patrick's day shouldn't be celebrated. The point he was attempting to make if I recall the rest of the segment was that Americans needed to focus on being American not Hyphenated people.

Lou Dobbs would have made more sense if he said because Irish people don't even celebrate St. Patrick's day.

I think multiculturalism enriches a country. It is definitely a benefit. 30 million Canadians aren't going to get together and say Yes, we're exactly the same. We should be proud to live in a country where you can say where your grandparents are from without being persecuted or shunned for it - and we haven't enjoyed this priviledge for very much of our history either!

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a "hyphenated" person either. If someone identifies themselves as Japanese-Canadian, then I don't see a problem.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yurrr. Agrees with Nurvi. I really tend to consider heritage to be at least nearly as important as nationality. Now, if only "some of everything"s like me had heritage...

[Mercutio]

Someone my dad knows went somewhere in Africa for something (I know that sounds....so interesting), and noticed the following:

An African-American 20-something who was sight-seeing/touring the region on vacation obviously expected Africa to be just like "yo...the 'ood." (If you understand me). He expected American black culture to the nth degree, not true African culture--he thought they'd talk like he did back in the states, listen to rap/hip-hop, etc.


Edit: ^That must be the most mixed up thing I've ever written. And it's a complete non sequitur--doesn't even go with the thread. Sorry guys

[Gwaimir Windgem]

It makes sense, though; a lot of time, people form their own subcultures for their ethnicity which is very distinct from the cultures of the areas they came from.

[afro-elf]

Mercutio, there was an article in not to long ago, unforunately I don't recall where, where an Black man went to Africa and was shocked that the N-word was used as store name.

But, I guess that may be off topic too.

Anyway let us return...

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Yurrr. Agrees with Nurvi. I really tend to consider heritage to be at least nearly as important as nationality. Now, if only "some of everything"s like me had heritage...

Hey, you have heritage! Millions of Canadians are some of everythings. I, for example, am: Canadian, French-Canadian, Irish, and British, with an Iroquois great-grandmother in my family tree somewhere.

That's some pretty typical Canadian heritage right there.

edit:

About Africa, it's an extremely diverse continent with thousands of different languages, and (I believe, but I can't find this information again) five large "groups" of people. Only one of these groups is represented in African-Americans. Another group are the Pygmies.

Within these groups, of course, are thousands of different nations of peoples. Well, it's da hood to someone at least!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I have way more than that; in fact, I have too much to keep track of.

[inked]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/KurtzIslam.php

Polygamy Versus Democracy
Stanley Kurtz
No endorsement implied.

You can't have both.

It took a television series about a Viagra-popping patriarch with three friendly/jealous wives and tightly scheduled evenings to set off a serious public debate about polygamy. And that was precisely the intention of the creators of this now infamous television show--no, not Big Love, the American series that debuted on HBO in March, but 'Ailat Al-Hagg Metwalli (Hagg Metwalli's Family), an Egyptian serial that stirred emotions and sparked a bitter debate about polygamy in the Muslim world during the holy month of Ramadan 2001.

The drama heats up when fiftysomething Metwalli Said, longtime husband of three, decides to court a young woman, Samira, in the hope of making her his fourth wife. Unbeknownst to Metwalli, Samira is in love with his own son, who is eventually forced by his father to forsake Samira to marry the daughter of a relative (as is often preferred in Muslim societies). Metwalli's Viagra-induced heart attack brings the story to a head.

Metwalli's polygamy serves as a kind of Rorschach test of Muslim modernization. Studying viewer responses to this serial, Norwegian historian of religion Anne Sofie Roald found that assimilated Muslim immigrant women in the West see Metwalli as a dictator: running around on his wives, forcing them to give up their jobs, forbidding them to leave the house without permission, selfishly forcing his son out of a love marriage, and generally insisting that his word is law.

Yet some unassimilated Muslim immigrant women in Europe, and many Muslim men, admire Metwalli for successfully embodying polygamy as authorized by Islam. Metwalli follows the Koranic precepts: telling all of his wives that he loves them, materially supporting them well and equally, and generally managing his family in the interests of all. Even Metwalli's son eventually comes around: Affection burgeons in his arranged marriage after his wife bears him a child.

Read the entire article on the Weekly Standard website (new window will open).

Posted: 04-Jun-06


http://www.theweeklystandard.com/Con...jhfgd.asp?pg=1

[The Gaffer]

* counts the number of different types of restaurant within walking distance of his house *

* runs out of fingers and toes *

Good thing!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Quite right, Gaffer, quite right.

[Elfhelm]

I think it's a good thing. On the serious side, I think children who enter public school speaking a different language than English, in addition to being taught English, should be educated to the literature of the language they already know. Their diversity should be encouraged. And maybe their friends will want to learn some of what they know. But I realize it's very complicated to do that, and I don't actually have a plan. My teacher wife will call me on the carpet over the actual implementation, so I'll just pipe down.

But I work in the translation business, so for me diversity is a money-making plan.

[inked]

It is a bane when one becomes other than the central culture in ways that prohibit interaction. It is a boon when one shares the joy of one's heritage.

As in:

ITALIAN-american

AFRO-american

Mexi-american

versus

Italian - AMERICAN

Afro-AMERICAN

Mexi-AMERICAN.

A central recognition of AMERICAN allows the fruition and joint sharing of the ancestries, foods, cultural benefits (and banes, as well). But the insistence on the ethnic identity above the common identity results in fracturing of the shared culture when pushed to extremes.

Personally, I like the diversity of ethnic cultural contributions, especially the foods! But, it is the commonality that allows such savorings and gives the piquance to the stew.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

But I work in the translation business, so for me diversity is a money-making plan.

You should come and set up in Europe: the EU spents around 40% of its administrative budget on translation (lost count of how many language pairs there are, or how many official languages).

A proper Babel!

[GreyMouser]

Put me down as mixed- feelings not ancestry-100% descendant of Britsh immigrants to Canada, back when "a Canadian citizen is a British subject"
My wife and kids are of an ethic minority in a country where I'm an immigrant, so I have ambivalent feelings.

I fully appreciate cherishing one's roots, but if you're an immigrant to MY country, you simply have to adjust to some things that may clash with your original culture- notably equality for women, freedom of speech- yes, even if it offends your religious beliefs- tolerance of other people's lifestyles, and general acceptance of individual rights- like your daughter can marry whomever she wants.

Please note- I claim Western liberal superiority here- if the country I live in doesn't support those values, that just shows how wrong they are, and I'll teach them to be tolerant if I have to pound it into their heads...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by inked

It is a bane when one becomes other than the central culture in ways that prohibit interaction. It is a boon when one shares the joy of one's heritage.

I agree with that. There is a definite tendency in America for people of different ethnic backgrounds to segregate, and to avoid people who aren't from the same background, and that is bad.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

I think it's a good thing. On the serious side, I think children who enter public school speaking a different language than English, in addition to being taught English, should be educated to the literature of the language they already know. Their diversity should be encouraged. And maybe their friends will want to learn some of what they know. But I realize it's very complicated to do that, and I don't actually have a plan. My teacher wife will call me on the carpet over the actual implementation, so I'll just pipe down.

Interesting proposition, although indeed somewhat difficult in implementation. That reminds me of a story where in an English exam one of the exercises read: 'translate into your own language'. After a Polish girl industriously translated all the sentences in Polish, the exercise on the next exam was changed into 'translate into Dutch.' She did get points for her translation, although I wonder whether they actually found someone Polish who could correct it.