Why the end of the third age

[Haradrim]

I wonder why TOlkien chose the end of the third age when there were times say in the first or second age that had so much more richness and culture. WHy did he choose a time near the end when a llo fthe beautiful things were dead or dying. I would have thought maybe the tale of the silmarils or The Last alliance of men and elves would have been much better because everything is at its height but we dont know who will continue. Will the free people continue to grow or will the darkness. There is more culture. More interaction that could be made. The cities are intact. Moria could be filled with dwarves, the lonely mountain filled with dwarves. Maybe we could see the end of Numenor. I know that books are written but they aren't I think at the same level as LOTr because the others are much more like history books, interesting yes but not necessarily as exciting. I just think that maybe a book of the earlier times would have been much cooler. What do you all think.

[umbardacil]

Im pretty sure tolkien wrote the story about the end of the third age because his publisher wanted a sequel to the hobbit. Not sure on the details.

[Haradrim]

Would Tolkien have written such a long series just because his publisher wanted a sequel. That seem s pretty unlikely to me. If tLOTr had been the szie od the hobbit I could buy it but it seems pretty unlikely to me.

[umbardacil]

it's explained in the FotR EE dvd in the part about Tolkien. The publisher wanted a sequel to the hobbit but Tolkien based it more on the mythology that he was working on at the time.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

Would Tolkien have written such a long series just because his publisher wanted a sequel. That seem s pretty unlikely to me. If LOTR had been the size of the hobbit I could buy it but it seems pretty unlikely to me.

Tolkien had promised the publisher a sequel but when he started writing it, he didn't have much of a plan of where the story would go. That's why the beginning of LoTR has much of the atmosphere of the Hobbit. In the beginning he even feared that he had used up all his inspiration in the Hobbit. I think Tolkien was as amazed as anybody that the story turned out so long as it did.

[Haradrim]

okay well maybe but it still doesnt have the ring of clarity for me. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

[Beren3000]

I'd stick to the "sequel" theory. Tolkien simply didn't detail the Silmarillion because he didn't have the intention of publishing it. It was for his private enjoyment. But indeed he considered it "dearest to his heart" and I think that given the chance to work on it, he would have made it highly detailed and much more magnificent than LOTR.

[Haradrim]

Yeah I always wondered what would have happened if Silmarillion had been made like LOTR. It would have been such a glorious epic. Oh man that would be great. (sigh)

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

I'd stick to the "sequel" theory. Tolkien simply didn't detail the Silmarillion because he didn't have the intention of publishing it. It was for his private enjoyment. But indeed he considered it "dearest to his heart" and I think that given the chance to work on it, he would have made it highly detailed and much more magnificent than LOTR.

But he *did* attempt to have it published, and more than once at that. I'm always saddened that he never finished the Lays of the Children of Hurin.

Aha! Found one of the pertinent letters:

Tolkien's Letters no. 126: (in a letter to Waldman whom Tolkien approached in an effort to get the silmarillion jointly published with LOTR):

...(I had in my letter made a strong point that the Silmarillion etc. and The Lord of the Rings went together, as one long Saga of the Jewels and the Rings, and that I was resolved to treat them as one thing, however they might formally be issued.)

[Beren3000]

Or The Lay of Leithian (I haven't actually read the Lays of Beleriand but I intend to some time)

[BeardofPants]

Oh! You simply must! They're both the best representatives of the those two tales that Tolkien ever churned out. Beautifully written.

[Haradrim]

Yeah I mean I heard Tolkien went to several publishers to publish the Silmarillion. Its sad that it never got finished or published earleir.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

okay well maybe but it still doesnt have the ring of clarity for me. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Tja. Have you read 'Letters' or the HoME-books that deal with the first versions of LoTR? That's where I got my ideas.

Originally Posted by Beren3000

I'd stick to the "sequel" theory. Tolkien simply didn't detail the Silmarillion because he didn't have the intention of publishing it. It was for his private enjoyment. But indeed he considered it "dearest to his heart" and I think that given the chance to work on it, he would have made it highly detailed and much more magnificent than LOTR.

He wanted to have the Silmarillion published, possibly more even than LoTR. If I recall correctly he was already working quite extensively on the Sillmarillion before he even began writing on LoTR. But he couldn't find publishers who wanted too until later, after the success of LoTR. But I agree with you, had he had sufficient time to finish the Silmarillion properly, it would have been a magnificent book that would have put LoTR in shadow. It would probably have been thrice in length too, mind you.

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

Oh! You simply must! They're both the best representatives of the those two tales that Tolkien ever churned out. Beautifully written.

I agree wholeheartedly! They're so beautiful that words don't suffice to say.

[Haradrim]

Thanks for the tip. i am currently working on Silmarillion and those two are enxt on my que. After summer reading tho.

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

It would probably have been thrice in length too, mind you.

I wouldn't mind reading it if it were ten times its length. (After all, The Wheel of Time already exceeded that limit and I'm still reading it )

[Haradrim]

OMG the wheel of time is so long but so worth it. ANd I think I would have felt the same way about Silmarillion. Imagien fit it had been done there probably would have been a silmarillion movie instead of LOTR movies.

[Beren3000]

Imagine each chapter in the Published Sil. stretched over in a book as long as Lord of Chaos *drools*

[Attalus]

Alas, JRRT was promised that if he finished the Sil after the success of LotR that it would be published, but he kept getting caught up in footling things like the Anryne Wisse, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo so never finished it. Christopher Tolkien had to cobble it together anyhow, even to the extent of writing some sections, like "The Fall of Doriath," just to get it published, as was his father's wish.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Imagine if he had finished the Silmarrillion to the extent of LotR it would contain so much detail and tales.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally Posted by Attalus

Alas, JRRT was promised that if he finished the Sil after the success of LotR that it would be published, but he kept getting caught up in footling things like the Anryne Wisse, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo so never finished it. Christopher Tolkien had to cobble it together anyhow, even to the extent of writing some sections, like "The Fall of Doriath," just to get it published, as was his father's wish.

Tolkien spent most of his time working on LoTR-related works. He didn't fail to publish The Silmarillion because of the Old English stuff, but because of the Middle-earth stuff.