Dress codes.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

What do you think of dress codes? Are you covered by one? What do you think the impact of a dress code on a community is?

When I was in school, there was a big protest that finally got us permission to wear "open-toed sandals" to school. Here the public school kids are almost all in uniform, the private school kids have a dress code, and of course, many of the parents are covered by a dress code at work. But a local High School is suggesting revisions to their dress code that really shock me.

So I'm curious.

[Mari]

I've never been to a place that had a dress code or uniforms or whatever.
I had a standard outfit for waitressing and if I go to church or a job interview then of course I wear something different then what I wear at home when I know I won't go out today.
My father has to wear a necktie to work and look generally okay, but no suit required either. I doubt there are a lot of companies that make their employees wear suits and the like. And for as far as I know there is only one school in the Netherlands with a uniform. It's the only boarding school we have here.

So I don't really have an opinion on the subject. I know that some schools chose to have uniforms so you can't see much difference between rich and poor kids, but they'll find out anyway, so I doubt this will have the desired effect. I'm not against it, but I don't see a reason for it either. Never thought about it though.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

School students wear uniforms in Japan, don't they?

All the Philly students do.
http://www.education-world.com/a_issues/issues075.shtml

Frankly, it creeps me out. And I haven't noticed it improves their behavior in public.

It's too Nazi, for my taste.

[Mari]

Yes, in Japan they do. After reading that article I realized that we did have a 'dress code' for gym class. We all had to wear our school T-shirt.
Hmm, I really wonder HOW the uniforms make kids calmer etc. And in what way.
It said that uniforms improve the school atmosphere. Why?
Also I felt the 'proof' that it worked because 'dressing down day' became a fun/chaos day is pure nonsense by the way. But that aside

Sorry, I get itchy and overly critical when reading articles that are written in such a fashion. (That includes most newspapers >_<)

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Mari

Yes, in Japan they do. After reading that article I realized that we did have a 'dress code' for gym class. We all had to wear our school T-shirt.
Hmm, I really wonder HOW the uniforms make kids calmer etc. And in what way.
It said that uniforms improve the school atmosphere. Why?
Also I felt the 'proof' that it worked because 'dressing down day' became a fun/chaos day is pure nonsense by the way. But that aside

Sorry, I get itchy and overly critical when reading articles that are written in such a fashion. (That includes most newspapers >_<)

Dress codes at schools work for a number of reasons. They act on the students in conformity, thus promoting an equality of kinds, which leaves more room for focus and productivity in the classroom.
And since the clothes usually are formal they promote a greater attention to keeping them clean and neat, disciplining the mind of the student.
The downside is that you can't go to school in whatever you want, but at the same time everyone wears the same and everyone is equally happy or equally sad, thus making no difference. While conformist, and many find negative connotations with that, it is efficient, and anything that promotes productive learning, in a harmless way, should be part of a student's life.
The dress code is though dependent on a school authority that makes wearing the formal clothes a good thing, with clothes worthy of keeping in shape. It's a kind of social contract which is dependent on cooperation from both students and the school authority. But I think it works more often than not.

[Mari]

It sounds too much like wishful thinking and up high for me.

I would have liked a school uniform though. They look nice, at least the UK kind. Not the Japanese kind with sailor suits... Plus it would make it even easier to get dressed. It might speed me up by a minute

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Mari

It sounds too much like wishful thinking and up high for me.

I would have liked a school uniform though. They look nice, at least the UK kind. Not the Japanese kind with sailor suits... Plus it would make it even easier to get dressed. It might speed me up by a minute

Well luckily I speak from experience and not some deep-down fantasy

[Mari]

Oy, who said anything about deep down fantasies? *is thinking back to a very disturbing class on Japanese business men, girls in high school outfits and the sailor suits becoming part of dark fantasies, manga and a sex-object in general* >_<

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Mari

Oy, who said anything about deep down fantasies? *is thinking back to a very disturbing class on Japanese business men, girls in high school outfits and the sailor suits becoming part of dark fantasies, manga and a sex-object in general* >_<

Woha! Creative imagination Mari Not fantasy, but simply, fantasy (as in fantasy world!)

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

Dress codes at schools work for a number of reasons. They act on the students in conformity, thus promoting an equality of kinds, which leaves more room for focus and productivity in the classroom.
And since the clothes usually are formal they promote a greater attention to keeping them clean and neat, disciplining the mind of the student.
The downside is that you can't go to school in whatever you want, but at the same time everyone wears the same and everyone is equally happy or equally sad, thus making no difference. While conformist, and many find negative connotations with that, it is efficient, and anything that promotes productive learning, in a harmless way, should be part of a student's life.
The dress code is though dependent on a school authority that makes wearing the formal clothes a good thing, with clothes worthy of keeping in shape. It's a kind of social contract which is dependent on cooperation from both students and the school authority. But I think it works more often than not.

Two ideas here attract my attention.

One is the idea that "promoting conformity" is a good thing. I'm a little dubious about that, particularly before I know who sets the standard we conform to.

The second is "it works", which is unproven in the US. I guess that would depend on what 'it works" to do.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

Woha! Creative imagination Mari Not fantasy, but simply, fantasy (as in fantasy world!)

Sorry, this subject and the word fantasy triggered some deeply pushed away memories of that particular class to surface again.
It was a very disturbing lecture. It was also the only lecture in the entire series that it was silent in the classroom and everyone was paying attention.
Maybe that would be a better idea then making kids wear uniforms...

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Two ideas here attract my attention.

One is the idea that "promoting conformity" is a good thing. I'm a little dubious about that, particularly before I know who sets the standard we conform to.

The second is "it works", which is unproven in the US. I guess that would depend on what 'it works" to do.

I think it's important to distinguish between conformity of thought and conformity of school behaviour. From experience I can say that it does not produce conformity of thought; that would be a shallow understanding of the human mind. But conformity of school behaviour, as in students do not go to so many extremes in behaviour, in getting the attention of the teacher or not, etc. I think that's positive.
Uniform dress code (which I'm speaking of) may be plainer and less colorful, but it can also stimulate respect.. and self-respect (which are important later in life).

Proven, unproven; the bottom-line is that trying uniform dress code on American high schools isn't the normal, but the exception.
Here's a result in favor:
"Virginia Draa, assistant professor at Youngstown State University, reviewed attendance, graduation and proficiency pass rates at 64 public high schools in Ohio. Her final analysis surprised her: "I really went into this thinking uniforms don't make a difference, but I came away seeing that they do. At least at these schools, they do. I was absolutely floored."

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Japanese schoolgirl porn is visible even here. It expands on a lot of pre-existing stereotypes about Japanese women, unfortunately...so I think it's wider than a previous set of 'Catholic Schoolgirl' fantasies.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

I think it's important to distinguish between conformity of thought and conformity of school behaviour. From experience I can say that it does not produce conformity of thought; that would be a shallow understanding of the human mind. But conformity of school behaviour, as in students do not go to so many extremes in behaviour, in getting the attention of the teacher or not, etc. I think that's positive.
Uniform dress code (which I'm speaking of) may be plainer and less colorful, but it can also stimulate respect.. and self-respect (which are important later in life).

Proven, unproven; the bottom-line is that trying uniform dress code on American high schools isn't the normal, but the exception.
Here's a result in favor:
"Virginia Draa, assistant professor at Youngstown State University, reviewed attendance, graduation and proficiency pass rates at 64 public high schools in Ohio. Her final analysis surprised her: "I really went into this thinking uniforms don't make a difference, but I came away seeing that they do. At least at these schools, they do. I was absolutely floored."

Maybe part of our problem is lumping together 'school uniforms" and 'dress code." Possible?

A lot of people are in uniforms, these days. Establishing the effects of it might be wise, since it's using big money that might otherwise be spent on, say, books.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

And, Coffeehouse, Virginia Draa's study had a 6 school sample, and was her master's paper. She's a home-ec teacher.

[Mari]

So did you intend this thread to be on school uniforms or dress code in general Sis?
Because I wouldn't want to have to wear suits every day to work. I don't think I could work comfortably when I'm all dressed up and looking fancy to satisfy my employers wishes.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Mari

So did you intend this thread to be on school uniforms or dress code in general Sis?
Because I wouldn't want to have to wear suits every day to work. I don't think I could work comfortably when I'm all dressed up and looking fancy to satisfy my employers wishes.

I dunno. I ran across this proposed amendment to the school 'dress code' and the content surprised me. You literally could not conform to this dress code by shopping in our local malls.

But I know people here are from a wide variety of life experience, so I wondered what was going on out there.

I prefer to see how people express themselves in appearence. If I conclude that someone is a complete skank from the way they dress, well, we're probably not missing too much in each other.

I get itchy by 'required' almost anything, though.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

And, Coffeehouse, Virginia Draa's study had a 6 school sample, and was her master's paper. She's a home-ec teacher.

Sis, let's not fuzzy the facts:

1. Of the 64 schools analyzed, 6 schools had uniform dress code. All 6 of them performed better.
As to your concerns about the paper, and her position:
2. Writing a master's paper is no small matter, and is synonymous with a rigidity of research. I wouldn't presume it was any less rigid for her.
3. "She's a home-ex teacher'.. Hehe why don't you tell her that. Assistant professor is not a position thrown about willy-nilly. It's precisely assistant professor, a position universities take serious.

[katya]

I loved wearing my sailor girl uniform. ^_^ I don't mind too much that it's like a sexual fantasy thing. I've always wanted to wear a french maid outfit too, so go figure. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2223/...78af409924.jpg

I don't like the dress code at work though. White t-shirt and khaki pants and ugly apron.

I like dress codes as long as you can still look cute. I don't know too much about whether it's right or wrong or helps kids behave or anything like that. I just want to look pretty. <3

[Coffeehouse]

Yup, pretty is good You just crashed this debate Points for you Katya!